Timetable changes which you would make

[Bald Rick]

• Stansted Express to call Tottenham Hale and Stansted only. Speed up every other Cambridge service to call Tottenham - Broxbourne - Harlow Town - Bishops Stortford - Audley End - Cambridge. The Bishops Stortford stoppers could terminate Stansted Mountfitchet.

Re: Stansted Express, you will only get away with reducing two trains an hour to be non-stop with the calls at Harlow Town and Bishops Stortford most likely being pushed onto the services not slowed down.

If there’s one thing @Ianno87 taught me its that the WAML operates on minimum headway for the bulk of the day. Were Stansted Express or Cambridge services to miss out stops, they will simply hit the next conflict earlier, and have to wait. That’s the trouble with a two track railway trying to serve suburban, outersuburbsn, and fast inter-urban markets.

 

[Adsy125]

Southern
All Mainline West services to Southampton go via Eastleigh

Why though?

 

[swt_passenger]

Why though?

They tried to run one way only a few years ago and it couldn’t be pathed. Needed an extra unit to run both ways if it could be pathed, because they’d lose the dwell time at Southampton. But then there’d be a unit sitting at Southampton for about 50 mins every hour. Also, XC objected via the access disputes panel and won their case...

On the positive side, SN Guildford services are already known to be on borrowed time...

 

[Adsy125]

They tried to run one way only a few years ago and it couldn’t be pathed. Needed an extra unit to run both ways if it could be pathed, because they’d lose the dwell time at Southampton. But then there’d be a unit sitting at Southampton for about 50 mins every hour. Also, XC objected via the access disputes panel and won their case...

On the positive side, SN Guildford services are already known to be on borrowed time...

I’m asking what the merits of doing it would be though?

 

[Aictos]

Putting a Luton Airport Parkway stop on a hourly Sheffield then non stop to Leicester.

On the same timetable, drop the Bedford call from the slow Nottingham so it’s Kettering, Luton Airport Parkway then London.

 

[Aictos]

Southern
All Mainline West services to Southampton go via Eastleigh whilst all Coastway West go via Swanwick. Eastbourne-Ashford Int'l starts from Brighton instead of Eastbourne. Stop providing limited services to Guildford and the Wimbledon loop to provide more available coaches for other services. Change Milton Keynes Central-South Croydon services to Watford Junction-Catherham.

London Northwestern Railway
St Albans Abbey-Watford Junction services terminating at London Euston instead of Watford Junction. More London-Liverpool services via Birmingham.

CrossCountry
Bring back Brighton services.

South Western Railway
Ascot-Aldershot services to go back being Waterloo-Guildford (via Ascot and Aldershot) and Farnham-Guildford services abandoned. A parliamentary designed to only serve Longcross for once a day per direction (Clapham Junction-Ascot, and return). All others serving Long Ross will effectively stop.

C2C
More regular services to Liverpool Street, especially during peak periods. Additional limited service London-Shoeburyness via Ockendon.

All the above
More frequent services.

Firstly the St Albans service is a non starter as 1. It’s a poor use of resources running a 4 car into London on a very busy route and 2. Paths are at a premium so ain’t going to happen!

Secondly, the proposal for the West London line wrecks what is a very popular and well used service with no benefits at all.

Thirdly, Cross Country won’t return to Brighton ever simply because there are no paths available on the congested Brighton Mainline.

All in one I can’t see any of those proposals delivering any benefits at all!

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m asking what the merits of doing it would be though?

Oh I know. Presumably airport passengers is the idea? Probably some half baked idea that it’s important to get there from Gatwick...

 

[PeterC]

How could more services be fitted to run to Liverpool Street in the peak periods, I do not think there would be enough platform space as well as bigger gaps in services out of Fenchurch Street. I think in the peak hours all C2C services are best to remain at Fenchurch Street to keep it simple as a more turn up and go service for commuters. However I do agree that more services should go in to Liverpool Street off-peak all week, with each hour there being 2tph Shoeburyness and possibly 2tph Southend Central via Grays, though I don't know if 4tph would fit in to Liverpool Street.

Not just fitting into Liverpool Street but also all down services crossing London bound Elizabeth Line services on the UP Electric at Forest Gate Junction. In the unlikely event of GA not needing all their capacity at Liverpool Street it could be used more effectively to strengthen services on the Suburban Lines.

 

[LUYMun]

After taking some examples from feedback to my timetable ideas, as well as others, I redrafted mine.

Southern

• Ashford International-Eastbourne services extended to Brighton.
• Milton Keynes Central-South Croydon services to extend to Caterham and run services for the whole length.
• Withdrawing the limited services to the Sutton loop as the extra carriages could be used on other services.
• Introduce a London Bridge-Victoria service going via Tulse Hill and Streatham Hill during peak hours. If possible, it could also run all day on Sundays as the London Bridge-Victoria (via Crystal Palace) services doesn’t run on Sundays.

South Western Railway

• Reintroduce Ascot-Guildford services, but keeping some Guildford/Ascot-Farnham services to even out traffic.
• Longcross, once a day per direction, must be served solely by a parliamentary train until passenger usage increases.
• Regular services for Waterloo-Weymouth services via Salisbury, only if more Class 158/159s are transferred to SWR.

London Northwestern Railway

• Increased stopping London-Liverpool (via Birmingham) services to 2tph.
• More trains to call at Harrow & Wealdstone and Wembley Central.
• London-Birmingham services to call at Bletchley for interchange with the Marston Vale line.

CrossCountry

• Increased Newcastle-Guildford services to 2 or 3 trains per day. If possible, extend 1tpd to Gatwick Airport via/or Redhill.
• Take over the Cotswold services between Worcester and Oxford from Great Western Railway, only operating the altered Newcastle-Guildford services via Worcester.

C2C

• Increased weekday off-peak services to Liverpool Street.

Thameslink

• Taking over the limited London Bridge-Guildford services run by Southern and extend them to Cambridge.

Greater Northern

• Hertford North/Welwyn Garden City-Moorgate services extended to King's Lynn/Peterborough.

 

[VT 390]

CrossCountry

• Increased Newcastle-Guildford services to 2 or 3 trains per day. If possible, extend 1tpd to Gatwick Airport via/or Redhill.
• Take over the Cotswold services between Worcester and Oxford from Great Western Railway, only operating the altered Newcastle-Guildford services via Worcester

Are you suggesting diverting the XC Newcastle services via the cotswold line? If so what will replace the Leamington and Banbury calls and won't the journey time increase quite a bit?
If this were to happen then I would say that it should not replace GWR services as a lot of people use them to travel through to London.

 

[Calum1]

On my local line I would make some changes

Helensburgh-Waverley 2tph all stops except between Dalmuir and Hyndland
Milngavie-Waverley 2tph all stops to High Street then Coatbridge Sunnyside, Coatdyke, Airdrie, Drumgelloch, Bathgate, Livingston North, Uphall, Edinburgh Park and Haymarket.
2tph Balloch-Queen Street high level
Alexandria, Renton, Dalreoch, Dumbarton central, Dumbarton East, Dalmuir, Singer, Drumry, Drumchapel, Westerton, Maryhill, Summerston, Gilscohill, Possilpark, and Ashfield.
(I know the Maryhill route needs electrification which in my opinion should be a high up priority)
2tph Dumbarton Central - Airdrie (all stops via Yoker)
2tph Dalmuir-Motherwell (1tph to Cumbernauld) via Singer and Blantyre.
2tph Dalmuir - Larkhall via Yoker
2tph Milngavie-Motherwell via Whifflet
2tph Queen Street High Level-Springburn via Maryhill line then North Clyde from Anniesland. (If electrification done)

 

[700007]

How could more services be fitted to run to Liverpool Street in the peak periods, I do not think there would be enough platform space as well as bigger gaps in services out of Fenchurch Street. I think in the peak hours all C2C services are best to remain at Fenchurch Street to keep it simple as a more turn up and go service for commuters. However I do agree that more services should go in to Liverpool Street off-peak all week, with each hour there being 2tph Shoeburyness and possibly 2tph Southend Central via Grays, though I don't know if 4tph would fit in to Liverpool Street.

TfL Rail uses all the available paths during the peaks and will always get priority into London Liverpool Street over c2c. Not possible unfortunately. However c2c could run, and do actually have training runs ECS into London Liverpool Street after shoulder peak and for the middle of the day. Could that become passenger paths if willing?

 

[700007]

After taking some examples from feedback to my timetable ideas, as well as others, I redrafted mine.

Southern

• Ashford International-Eastbourne services extended to Brighton.
• Milton Keynes Central-South Croydon services to extend to Caterham and run services for the whole length.
• Withdrawing the limited services to the Sutton loop as the extra carriages could be used on other services.
• Introduce a London Bridge-Victoria service going via Tulse Hill and Streatham Hill during peak hours. If possible, it could also run all day on Sundays as the London Bridge-Victoria (via Crystal Palace) services doesn’t run on Sundays.

South Western Railway

• Reintroduce Ascot-Guildford services, but keeping some Guildford/Ascot-Farnham services to even out traffic.
• Longcross, once a day per direction, must be served solely by a parliamentary train until passenger usage increases.
• Regular services for Waterloo-Weymouth services via Salisbury, only if more Class 158/159s are transferred to SWR.

London Northwestern Railway

• Increased stopping London-Liverpool (via Birmingham) services to 2tph.
• More trains to call at Harrow & Wealdstone and Wembley Central.
• London-Birmingham services to call at Bletchley for interchange with the Marston Vale line.

CrossCountry

• Increased Newcastle-Guildford services to 2 or 3 trains per day. If possible, extend 1tpd to Gatwick Airport via/or Redhill.
• Take over the Cotswold services between Worcester and Oxford from Great Western Railway, only operating the altered Newcastle-Guildford services via Worcester.

C2C

• Increased weekday off-peak services to Liverpool Street.

Thameslink

• Taking over the limited London Bridge-Guildford services run by Southern and extend them to Cambridge.

Greater Northern

• Hertford North/Welwyn Garden City-Moorgate services extended to King's Lynn/Peterborough.

Absolutely agree with all of your points in regards to London Northwestern Railway and c2c. The SWR service to Weymouth via Salisbury I think would also be quite popular and would help thicken out the service along Heart of Wessex line which has really sporadic gaps at present. I would probably leave the Longcross calls alone. The Southern service to Milton Keynes, if it can be extended beyond East Croydon I would not appreciate it going Caterham. I would ideally aim for it to go in the Redhill and Gatwick Airport direction which would prove more popular. A link from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, West London and inner South London to the country's second biggest airport would fare very well. I was told a while back this apparently wasn't possible because there were no paths available but I reject the claims that the service would not do well.

The proposal for Great Northern would be poorly used to be honest. Part of it is there is enough capacity to cater to the demand for the London to Cambridge market facilitated by the extra Cambridge fast, and new Thameslink trains which carry more people and run twice as frequently when driver shortages don't cripple it on a day like this. Greater Anglia also are expanding capacity on their side in the next year or so. To have a train with no toilets doing a long trip may cause issues.

The stations up to Peterborough want their trains faster not slower, hence there are daily pullman services that are limited stop (usually the likes of Huntingdon, St. Neot's, Biggleswade only) and aim to get to London fast in addition to the Horsham trains that have been sped up last year to run straight from Stevenage to Finsbury Park. The fast service to King's Lynn currently takes just under two hours at best and would make the journey even more attractive to have stopping trains that are taking probably over three hours to London with minimal benefit.