Timetable changes which you would make

[Jorge Da Silva]

What timetable changes would you implement if you could and when? Who would operate them? What stations would they called at? What rolling stock would they use?

This thread is about speculative changes you would make to the timetable.

 

[xotGD]

I'd timetable all London arrivals into Leeds to arrive 10 minutes before the next Skipton departure so that if you arrive late and miss the connection delay repay kicks in.

 

[700007]

London Northwestern Railway
Depends on the TOC but would like to see London Northwestern Railway make at the minimum 3tph at Harrow & Wealdstone off peak - this stop has become more and more popular on their local Tring stoppers and particularly going into London Euston there isn't always sufficient capacity. Would be nice if the extra train came from the likes of Birmingham, Liverpool or Crewe.

Greater Anglia
For Greater Anglia, I would like to see additional calls at Northumberland Park - I know this is due to happen come September. The xx:30 out of Stratford to Bishops Stortford could easily call at Northumberland Park, and then run fast to Cheshunt to keep the trains on the Lea Valley moving. To compensate, the xx:28 to Cambridge off Liverpool Street would make an additional call at Waltham Cross and no longer call at Cheshunt.

I also think, given the constraints on capacity into London Liverpool Street, Greater Anglia Hertford East Peak extras should try and make an additional stop at Southbury. This is an increasingly popular station and the half hourly frequency even during the peaks may not truly reflect demand.

TfL Rail
I would like to see more trains put on, more evenly spaced out during evening peak 1630-1730 as the 7 then 3 minute gaps no longer work well on the London Liverpool Street to Shenfield line.

Southeastern
I would like to see HS1 services via Herne Bay sped up quite a bit. It takes quite a long time to reach the Kent Coast. An idea I had, not too sure how popular or feasible this is, is to portion work on the xx:25 service and effectively split at Gravesend with the front 6 running non-stop to Sittingbourne or Faversham. The rear 6 would then continue to serve all the stations High Speed trains stop at, as present, to Faversham or even in the summer months Broadstairs that way they don't lose their connectivity to HS1 services.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

East Coast Partnership

• Introduction of 1tpd between Cleethorpes and London Kings Cross Via Habrough, Barnetby, Market Rasen, Lincoln Central, Newark Northgate, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage and London Kings Cross using Class 800’s
• Introduction of 1tpd between Scarborough and London Kings Cross via York, Doncaster, Retford, Newark Northgate, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage and London Kings Cross Using Class 800’s

West Coast Partnership

• 1tpd between Bolton via Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Stoke-on-Trent and London Euston
• Increase Shrewsbury services to 3tpd (potentially 4tpd if you can) and extend them to Wrexham replacing the existing service via Chester (or could you extend Shrewsbury service further to Chester instead of just Wrexham)

TransPennine Express

• The Introduction of Direct services from Liverpool to Hull using Class 802’s
• Transfer of Liverpool to Nottingham services and use Class 802’s
• Introduction of a Liverpool to Leicester using 802's
• Extend Hull to Manchester Piccadilly services to Manchester Airport

Northern

• Extend hourly Sheffield to Gainsborough Central services to Cleethorpes
• Extend hourly Doncaster to Scunthorpe as a Cleethorpes to Leeds service
• Increase Barton services to Hourly
• Increase Liverpool to Blackpool services to Half-hourly
• Introduction of 3tpd between Blackpool to Glasgow

East Midlands

• Introduction of 1tpd between Barnsley and London St Pancras
• Introduction of Manchester Piccadilly and Leicester
• Increase Barton services to Hourly
• Extend Crewe-Nottingham services to Manchester Airport

CrossCountry

• Introduction of a Hourly Liverpool to Reading service using HSTs
• Divert Newcastle to Reading/Southampton to Hull
• Extend Cardiff-Nottingham services to Swansea

 

[Aictos]

Instead of extending Nottingham to Crewe onto Manchester Airport, I be happy with it just being a Leicester to Crewe via Nottingham service especially as Manchester Airport sees more then enough trains without bringing more congestion that more trains will bring.

I wouldn’t mind seeing the Northern Nottingham to Leeds and Leeds to Carlisle services being merged though under the Northern Connect brand even if it’s only 1tp2h that does the whole route.

The Scarborough service I would run via the Midland Mainline, basically the summer Saturday service will be a daily return service all year round and not just on Saturdays.

Why divert the XC Newcastle services to Hull? Newcastle is far bigger and has more destinations so I wouldn’t consider diverting at all, why not introduce a Peterborough to Hull service as a extension of the Peterborough to Doncaster service instead?

I would also extend the existing XC Leicester stoppers to Peterborough or extend them to Lincoln.

 

[Esker-pades]

My seemlingly constant re-drafting of my own nationwide timetables produce some services which I quite like. I don't have the time to go through everything, but I'll start with one TOC and move from there:


Transport for Wales

• Half hourly express service from Swansea to Shrewsbury (Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Pyle (1tph), Bridgend, Cardiff Central, Newport, Hereford, Shrewsbury) (Wem, Whitchurch, Nantwich, Crewe, Wilmslow, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly) or Liverpool Lime Street (Wrexham General, Chester, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway, Liverpool Lime Street.
• An hourly frequency on all West Wales lines (Pembroke, Milford Haven, Fishguard) - This is possible, but the timetable leaves very tight turnaround times at Pembroke and Fishguard. I may look at removing stops from Pembroke services to make smaller stations like Lamphey, Penally etc. bi-hourly so that reliability isn't shot.
• An even service between Cardiff Central and Queen Street (every 5 minutes without those 10 minute gaps)
• 2 trains per hour between Cheltenham Spa and Cardiff (possibly starting one at Gloucester in case the paths don't work between there and Cheltenham)
• Hourly stopping service between Cardiff and Swansea (giving Llansamlet etc. a clockface service)
• Hourly stopping service between Cardiff and Shrewsbury
• Hourly stopping service between Shrewsbury and Manchester
  
• Hourly semi-fast service between Cardiff and Chester (skips Pontypool, Chirk, Ruabon)
• Hourly Holyhead to Liverpool, Hourly Llandudno to Manchester

 

[yorksrob]

Half hourly interval service between Leeds and Normanton (hourly on Sundays).

Long overdue, but nothing happens.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd make either incoming services at Huddersfield from Sheffield arrive 10 minutes earlier, or departures from Huddersfield to Leeds (all stops) leave 10 minutes later. I'd also make the Huddersfield to Wakefield service arrive at Mirfield ahead of the Southport to Leeds, rather than just behind it.

 

[Peter C]

Seen as this is the speculative ideas section, I'd improve services along the Cotswold Line; I'd introduce some stopping services, calling at all stations, around midday (the middle of the off-peak); and some fast services, only calling at stations such as Oxford, Charlbury, Moreton-in-Marsh, Worcester Shrub Hill, and Hereford. This is purely because taking a train along the Cotswold Line takes forever, because they all call at Oxford, Hanborough, Charlbury, Kingham, Moreton-in-Marsh, Evesham, Pershore, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Foregate Street, Malvern Link, Great Malvern, Colwall, Ledbury, and Hereford, which is far too many stops! Especially when the train sits at Evesham for 7 minutes. 7 minutes! In the middle of nowhere!

-Peter

 

[Bletchleyite]

On all except the most rural lines, move to a connectional, hourly Taktfahrplan.

 

[yorksrob]

Obviously double the frequency to Whitby.

 

[SickyNicky]

...and some fast services, only calling at stations such as Oxford, Charlbury, Moreton-in-Marsh, Worcester Shrub Hill, and Hereford.

They may as well stop at Ledbury as well, since it's the crossover on the single line. Unless they can path them through, which might not be easy.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I'd make Leeds-Goole more frequent (hourly/2-hourly) and extend it to Hull.

 

[jimm]

Seen as this is the speculative ideas section, I'd improve services along the Cotswold Line; I'd introduce some stopping services, calling at all stations, around midday (the middle of the off-peak); and some fast services, only calling at stations such as Oxford, Charlbury, Moreton-in-Marsh, Worcester Shrub Hill, and Hereford. This is purely because taking a train along the Cotswold Line takes forever, because they all call at Oxford, Hanborough, Charlbury, Kingham, Moreton-in-Marsh, Evesham, Pershore, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Foregate Street, Malvern Link, Great Malvern, Colwall, Ledbury, and Hereford, which is far too many stops! Especially when the train sits at Evesham for 7 minutes. 7 minutes! In the middle of nowhere!

-Peter

Trains wait at Evesham (and one or two other places at certain points in the day) because the underlying timetable pattern is still dictated by the need to slot in and out of the fast trains paths to and from London at Oxford, that pre-date the track redoubling work completed in 2011 - and the remaining single-track sections on the line itself. I doubt people living in Evesham think it is the middle of nowhere...

Adjustments coming in the December timetable will allow the removal of the waiting time at Evesham, with faster journeys all round, and the idea of fast and stopping trains on the line has been ruled out by the Cotswold Line taskforce after exhaustive modelling of all sorts of timetable options and analysis of passenger numbers at the various stations.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ideas-for-improving-the-north-cotswold-line.169793/page-3 for what they are proposing and discussion of this.

 

[Peter C]

Trains wait at Evesham (and one or two other places at certain points in the day) because the underlying timetable pattern is still dictated by the need to slot in and out of the fast trains paths to and from London at Oxford, that pre-date the track redoubling work completed in 2011 - and the remaining single-track sections on the line itself. I doubt people living in Evesham think it is the middle of nowhere...

Adjustments coming in the December timetable will allow the removal of the waiting time at Evesham, with faster journeys all round, and the idea of fast and stopping trains on the line has been ruled out by the Cotswold Line taskforce after exhaustive modelling of all sorts of timetable options and analysis of passenger numbers at the various stations.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ideas-for-improving-the-north-cotswold-line.169793/page-3 for what they are proposing and discussion of this.

Interesting. Personally, I think that everywhere along the Cotswold Line is in the middle of nowhere, compared to other lines in the area!

-Peter

 

[Peter C]

They may as well stop at Ledbury as well, since it's the crossover on the single line. Unless they can path them through, which might not be easy.

Oh OK. I forgot about that; I've only travelled beyond Worcester once and I haven't looked into the Cotswold Line north of there much.

-Peter

 

[Bald Rick]

A St Albans - Wolverhampton SO, arriving at the latter about 2 hours before kick off, and departing 30 minutes after. Retimed to SuO as required.

 

[Bevan Price]

We can all dream, but for one reason or another, all ideas will be rejected. The planners will (probably correctly) tell us no paths are available; someone will tell that no stock is available; DfT will say "we didn't think about it, so it must be a bad idea", etc.

But in a dreamland world of infinite resources, here a few simple suggestions for my local area.
Liverpool Lime Street to Edinburgh, every 2 hours calling at St. Helens Central, Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle, Haymarket & Edinburgh.
Worked by Class 350/2 (with new 2+2 seating) when these become "spare". (Additional Wigan stop outside peak hours, to avoid peak services getting overloaded by "Wigan" commuters.)

Off -peak stops at Wigan to be reinstated for TP Manchester Airport/Scotland services.

Liverpool Lime St. - Manchester Airport semi-fast service via Chat Moss route (in addition to service via Warrington Central).
Hourly, calling at Huyton, St. Helens Jn., Earlestown, Newton Le Willows, Manchester Oxford Road, Piccadilly & Airport.

Liverpool Lime St - Manchester; All stations, 2 per hour, running alternately to Victoria & Piccadilly; these could continue to Stalybridge or Airport, respectively. (Lime St - Bank Quay withdrawn; additional journeys between Earlestown & Warrington being provided by Calder Valley - Chester services.)

Wigan Wallgate - Kirkby. Evening services to be reinstated.

(TP) Lea Green stops to be replaced by stops at St. Helens Junction. (Lea Green car park too small; spare space available at enlarged car park at St. Helens Jn.)

St. Helens Central to St. Helens Junction to be reinstated and electrified. LNW service London / Trent Valley to Crewe to be extended hourly to Preston, calling at Hartford, Warrington Bank Quay, Earlestown, St. Helens Jn, St. Helens Central, Wigan North Western, Leyland & Preston.

 

[JamesRowden]

Problem: Redhill-Tonbridge service only running hourly (because of lack of use) and not running beyond Redhill/Tonbridge makes journeys using it longer and more complicated.

Solution: Merge the hourly Reading-Redhill stopper with the hourly Redhill-Tonbridge service and extend it semi-fast to Dover to increase the use of the Redhill-Tonbridge line since many journeys using the line would become significantly faster and simpler.

 

[PeterC]

Run Chesham off peaks fast Moor Park to Harrow and Harrow to Wembley Park. All off peak Chilterns via Amersham to be a minimum of 3 cars.

 

[Voyager lad]

ScotRail
North Clyde
• 2tph Helensburgh - Edinburgh operating as a faster service than present, only calling at Craigendoran, Cardross, Dalreoch, Dumbarton Central, Dalmuir, Hyndland, Partick, Charing Cross, Glasgow Queen St Low Level, High Street, Coatbridge Sunnyside, Airdrie, Drumgelloch, Bathgate, Livingston North, Edinburgh Park and Haymarket. Could use new units specifically for the service.
• 2tph Milngavie - Edinburgh remains unchanged.
• 2tph Balloch - Edinburgh, running as present via Singer then taking over the current Helensburgh - Edinburgh stopping pattern from High Street.
• 2tph Dumbarton Central - Springburn remains unchanged.
• 2tph Maryhill - Airdrie all stops (would require electrification from Anniesland - Maryhill).
South of Scotland
• 1tph Glasgow - Carlisle calling at Motherwell, Carstairs and Lockerbie using spare 350s.
• 1tph Glasgow - Dumfries running fast to Kilmarnock then all stops to Dumfries.
• 2tph Dumfries - Carlisle, 1tph extending to Newcastle and run by Northern.

Quite random ideas but they could work and would all be improvements in some ways

 

[BJames]

Problem: Redhill-Tonbridge service only running hourly (because of lack of use) and not running beyond Redhill/Tonbridge makes journeys using it longer and more complicated.

Solution: Merge the hourly Reading-Redhill stopper with the hourly Redhill-Tonbridge service and extend it semi-fast to Dover to increase the use of the Redhill-Tonbridge line since many journeys using the line would become significantly faster and simpler.

I like the idea of merging this. Last time I used this line there was hardly anyone on the train.

Separately:

• I'd love to see 4tph all day Liverpool Street- Enfield Town and 4tph Liverpool Street-Cheshunt, up to 6tph in the peaks. In reality, Hertford services stop this from happening - but 4tph in off-peaks would still be nice. This could work with speeding up every other service to call at Hackney Downs - Seven Sisters - (White Hart Lane?) - Edmonton Green and then Bush Hill Park and Enfield or Southbury - Turkey Street - Theobalds Grove - Cheshunt ---- the idea being that with trains alternating, all stations along the line will have at least a 4tph service.
• Faster services to Cornwall. As there is now a better service Plymouth - Penzance, an IET service (maybe twice a day in each direction) could run Paddington - Exeter SD - Newton Abbot - Plymouth - Truro - Penzance. People can change where necessary for local services.
• Stansted Express to call Tottenham Hale and Stansted only. Speed up every other Cambridge service to call Tottenham - Broxbourne - Harlow Town - Bishops Stortford - Audley End - Cambridge. The Bishops Stortford stoppers could terminate Stansted Mountfitchet.

 

[Gareth]

Merseyrail

Southport-Liverpool South Parkway 6tph - 3tph extended to Hunts Cross*

Liverpool Central**-Maghull North 6tph - 3tph extended to Ormskirk

Liverpool Central**- Kirkby*** 6 tph

Liverpool-New Brighton 6tph

Liverpool-West Kirby 6tph

Liverpool-Hooton 6tph - 3tph each extended to Ellesmere Port and Chester****

*Ideally extensions to Gateacre and Hough Green and beyond. This should involve grade separation at Hunts Cross.

**Might be preferrable to add a turnback facility at Brunswick, complete with third platform

***Preferrably extended to Headbolt Lane with 3tph continuing to Skelmersdale

****Reduction in service to Chester compensated to some extent with Halton Curve services. No Capenhurst skip. Ellesmere Port line also increased to allow clock face 10min interval between Hooton and Liverpool

 

[Adsy125]

GWR

Bedwyn stoppers extended to Frome 1tph
Bristol-Frome services at least 1tph
1tp2h To Penzance calling at Westbury or Castle Cary, alternate hours to the Exeter Semi fasts, (based on timetable from December)
Transwilts Swindon-Westbury 1tph and extended to Salisbury.
Weston-super-Mare - Paddington via Parkway 1tph
Bristol-Weymouth 1tp2h regular timetable
Bristol-Romsey via Southampton Central 1tph taken over from SWR
SWR
Hamworthy - New Milton all stations "Poole Bay Metro" at least 3tph
Yeovil - Waterloo via Westbury 1tp2h

 

[TheWalrus]

GWR

Bedwyn stoppers extended to Frome 1tph
Bristol-Frome services at least 1tph
1tp2h To Penzance calling at Westbury or Castle Cary, alternate hours to the Exeter Semi fasts, (based on timetable from December)
Transwilts Swindon-Westbury 1tph and extended to Salisbury.
Weston-super-Mare - Paddington via Parkway 1tph
Bristol-Weymouth 1tp2h regular timetable
Bristol-Romsey via Southampton Central 1tph taken over from SWR
SWR
Hamworthy - New Milton all stations "Poole Bay Metro" at least 3tph
Yeovil - Waterloo via Westbury 1tp2h

There’s an idea in there very similar to one I had today. Not sure if Frome justifies 3tph??

 

[Adsy125]

There’s an idea in there very similar to one I had today. Not sure if Frome justifies 3tph??

There are stations with fewer users than Frome with a better service, but perhaps the Bedwyns could just go to Westbury.

 

[TheWalrus]

There are stations with fewer users than Frome with a better service, but perhaps the Bedwyns could just go to Westbury.

I would increase the London-Exeter semi-fasts to hourly and call at Bedwyn to allow westbound connections from Hungerford and Kintbury. I would also have these call at Hungerford and Bedwyn in the peaks scrapping the Bedwyn-Newbury shuttles.

One of the Didcot stoppers each hour I would make fast from Maidenhead to Paddington, or stop at Slough.

I would have a fast service each hour from Paignton to Exeter either as an XC service or GWR.

1tp2h between Westbury and Weymouth alternating with a two-hourly Yeovil Pen Mill-Waterloo.

Increase frequency to half-hourly between Bristol/Cardiff and Southampton.

Introduce an hourly or two-hourly stopper between Honiton and Exeter and make the Exeter-Waterloo fast Central-Honiton.

Agree with the idea to extend Cardiff-Nottingham to Swansea each hour, absorbing the Swanline service. Alternatively these calls could go on the Milford Haven-Manchesters. I also like the Reading-Liverpool idea, reconnecting Liverpool to the XC network. These could alternatively go to Bristol.

 

[700007]

Separately:

• I'd love to see 4tph all day Liverpool Street- Enfield Town and 4tph Liverpool Street-Cheshunt, up to 6tph in the peaks. In reality, Hertford services stop this from happening - but 4tph in off-peaks would still be nice. This could work with speeding up every other service to call at Hackney Downs - Seven Sisters - (White Hart Lane?) - Edmonton Green and then Bush Hill Park and Enfield or Southbury - Turkey Street - Theobalds Grove - Cheshunt ---- the idea being that with trains alternating, all stations along the line will have at least a 4tph service
• Stansted Express to call Tottenham Hale and Stansted only. Speed up every other Cambridge service to call Tottenham - Broxbourne - Harlow Town - Bishops Stortford - Audley End - Cambridge. The Bishops Stortford stoppers could terminate Stansted Mountfitchet.

The ideas don't sound bad in theory but in practice they wouldn't work - the issue with having 4tph to Cheshunt off peak is it would see a frequency decrease during the peak at Southbury, Turkey Street and Theobalds Grove as there is no capacity out of LST right now to host 4tph LO to Cheshunt via Seven Sisters. I do definitely agree though that Southbury at the very least if not the other two would highly benefit from such an increase. I would like to see GA's peak time Hertford East service make an additional call at Southbury at least once an hour.

Re: Stansted Express, you will only get away with reducing two trains an hour to be non-stop with the calls at Harlow Town and Bishops Stortford most likely being pushed onto the services not slowed down.

 

[LUYMun]

Southern
All Mainline West services to Southampton go via Eastleigh whilst all Coastway West go via Swanwick. Eastbourne-Ashford Int'l starts from Brighton instead of Eastbourne. Stop providing limited services to Guildford and the Wimbledon loop to provide more available coaches for other services. Change Milton Keynes Central-South Croydon services to Watford Junction-Catherham.

London Northwestern Railway
St Albans Abbey-Watford Junction services terminating at London Euston instead of Watford Junction. More London-Liverpool services via Birmingham.

CrossCountry
Bring back Brighton services.

South Western Railway
Ascot-Aldershot services to go back being Waterloo-Guildford (via Ascot and Aldershot) and Farnham-Guildford services abandoned. A parliamentary designed to only serve Longcross for once a day per direction (Clapham Junction-Ascot, and return). All others serving Longcross will effectively stop.

C2C
More regular services to Liverpool Street, especially during peak periods. Additional limited service London-Shoeburyness via Ockendon.

All the above
More frequent services.

 

[VT 390]

C2C
More regular services to Liverpool Street, especially during peak periods. Additional limited service London-Shoeburyness via Ockendon.
.

How could more services be fitted to run to Liverpool Street in the peak periods, I do not think there would be enough platform space as well as bigger gaps in services out of Fenchurch Street. I think in the peak hours all C2C services are best to remain at Fenchurch Street to keep it simple as a more turn up and go service for commuters. However I do agree that more services should go in to Liverpool Street off-peak all week, with each hour there being 2tph Shoeburyness and possibly 2tph Southend Central via Grays, though I don't know if 4tph would fit in to Liverpool Street.