Time to Remove Level Crossings?

[MidnightFlyer]

Im curious, have all the half gates on level crossings been replaced? That always struck me as an open invitation for some munter to drive round them.

I doubt it.

 

[blue sabre]

I don't remember all these accidents when level crossings had big and heavy white gates operated from an adjoining signal box by a signalman turning a great big wheel...

To be fair that's not really a good comparison, there was also less road traffic then too.

 

[Old Timer]

......Im curious, have all the half gates on level crossings been replaced? That always struck me as an open invitation for some munter to drive round them.

I dont think I have ever seen a half-gated level crossing :?

The requirement is that manually operated gated crossings must fully enclose the railway from the roadway on each side, therefore the gate is the width of a single carriageway as a minimum..

Normally where there is a narrow road the gates will not fully enclose the railway but they always enclose the road in my experience. Do you have some examples/ pictures so I can understand what your point is please ?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You mean this kind of crossing?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...z5DA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:0

 

[jopsuk]

Old Timer- I think he meant half-barriers- these of course are very much still in evidence, automatically operated by approaching trains. Did see an interesting approach to them on a single track line in France- the approaching road was split by a small island, continuing quite close to the tracks (after all, a low island can be within the horizontal extremes of the loading gauge). This therefore meant that if someone tried to drive along the opposite side of the road, there isn't enough space between the islands to drive through- but the safety idea of not trapping vehicles that are already on the crossing is retained. Doesn't have to be a high island- something similar in height and position to a 3rd rail should, I'd have thought, be OK and be unlikely to foul trains. Could even (with that size of structure) have something in the 4 foot on double track lines.

 

[Old Timer]

The picture is of a half-barriered crosing. Is that what you mean ?

If so then the answer is no. It is not permitted to fully enclose the road at an automatic level crossing so as to remove the risk of a vehicle or animal/person, etc becoming trapped after the lowering sequence has started. The rules are that the exit must be unobstructed.

This applies to level crossings of this type world-wide.

Unfortunately this does mean that a road vehicle driver, or anyone else for that matter can enter onto the crossing after the lowering sequence has commenced. This is uncontrollable and relies on the self dicipline of the crossing user.

Where there are full width barriers (as opposed to gates) then the barriers must be supervised at the time of closing either by sight or by CCTV.

Where a road is lightly used or the crossing is on a private access road, then a full-width barrier can be provided but it must remain closed and be operated on each occasion someone wants to cross the line. Usually these are hydraulically operated with a slow-release mechanism that allows the barrier to gently lower after a short period of time.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm getting my information from the RSSB report into the Ufton accident. Contained with in is a reproduction of a flow chart to determine what type of level crossing is appropriate in various different situations this is taken from Network Rail Code of Practice RT/E/C/11600 - Signalling & Operations Telecommunications - Page X18. The flow I'm following says START - Permitted Speed >200km/h -YES- Level Crossing Not Permitted.

Ah - but you don't have a permitted speed 'greater than' 200 km/h, (125 mph) so you follow the other branch. When you come to the decision 'is line speed greater than 160 km/h' (100 mph) - you then find you need a manually controlled barrier. AFAICT that's still the current situation.

It would be a different decision if the first question was 'greater than or equal to' 200 km/h - but that would be a different symbol.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah - but you don't have a permitted speed 'greater than' 200 km/h, (125 mph) so you follow the other branch.

I've gone back to the text of the report and having read it again, yeah I agree my initial interpretation was wrong. But the initial point as to why HS1 has no level crossings stand, I just cocked up my 'greater than', 'less than' and so on wrong

 

[Kneedown]

Ah - but you don't have a permitted speed 'greater than' 200 km/h, (125 mph) so you follow the other branch. When you come to the decision 'is line speed greater than 160 km/h' (100 mph) - you then find you need a manually controlled barrier. AFAICT that's still the current situation.

It would be a different decision if the first question was 'greater than or equal to' 200 km/h - but that would be a different symbol.

Although for a while there was 140mph running on the ECML through an area of many level crossings. This was only for test purposes though.

 

[blacknight]

To be fair that's not really a good comparison, there was also less road traffic then too.

Might also have something to do with the fact in black & white days people were more willing to comply with the rules in highwaycode than today.

 

[45669]

To be fair that's not really a good comparison, there was also less road traffic then too.

Maybe, but even in the 1950s I can remember some mighty traffic hold ups at level crossings.

Also, it was quite common for there to be separate pedestrian gates which were locked in the shut position by a lever in the adjoining 'box. This prevented silly girls with push chairs rushing across in front of on-coming trains.

 

[blacknight]

Also, it was quite common for there to be separate pedestrian gates which were locked in the shut position by a lever in the adjoining 'box. This prevented silly girls with push chairs rushing across in front of on-coming trains.

I wasn't there but I am sure there would have been far less "silly girls" out with pushchairs back in 50's/60's far to busy at home tied to the kitchen sink

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

The picture is of a half-barriered crosing. Is that what you mean ?

If so then the answer is no. It is not permitted to fully enclose the road at an automatic level crossing so as to remove the risk of a vehicle or animal/person, etc becoming trapped after the lowering sequence has started. The rules are that the exit must be unobstructed.

This applies to level crossings of this type world-wide.

Unfortunately this does mean that a road vehicle driver, or anyone else for that matter can enter onto the crossing after the lowering sequence has commenced. This is uncontrollable and relies on the self dicipline of the crossing user.

Where there are full width barriers (as opposed to gates) then the barriers must be supervised at the time of closing either by sight or by CCTV.

Where a road is lightly used or the crossing is on a private access road, then a full-width barrier can be provided but it must remain closed and be operated on each occasion someone wants to cross the line. Usually these are hydraulically operated with a slow-release mechanism that allows the barrier to gently lower after a short period of time.

Yes I did, I appologise for the inaccurate terminology that you rightly pulled me up on. And thank you for answering the question.

I notice looking at google there was a road crossing about 2 miles to the East of Swindon, that they clearly have removed at some point because it only accessed a private property (they appear to have put a new road in). There is another to the east of the former Shrivenham station which appears to have been replaced by a new bridge. Compare that to St Marys Crossing near Stroud which is not only still gated, but has the original crossing box still to control it.

 

[tripleseis]

In those days people left their babies in prams outside shops while then went shopping.

 

[43167]

Sadly despite what happen in anglia the other week. People still abuse crossings. Yesterday I was on the Wensleydale Line & when my train was approaching the level crossing which the Leeming Bar-Bedale road goes over, 3 cars crossed, despite the lights flashing.