Tickets going down in price

[Goatboy]

Hello chaps,

Just flicking through some old tickets and I notice an Offpeak Return I bought last year for £12.80 is now £12.35. Same ticket, not an advance, etc etc. Just a straight Offpeak Return (No, not a day return).

Does that happen often? A nice suprise. I'd been buying two offpeak singles for ages because it oddly worked out cheaper without having realised they'd reduced the price of the return.

 

[wintonian]

With the system of 'fares baskets' the average increase of the basket (of regulated fares) is capped so in order to increase some flows to such a degree that the average increase would be above the maximum other fares need to decrease.

If that makes sense?

At other times a flow may be decreased in price to encourage more people to use that route or that TOC where competition does exist.

 

[p123]

There was a couple of years ago (maybe someone can recall the exact year, I'm sure it was two years ago) when the fares on ScotRail went down. Something like 2% if I recall correctly?

 

[yorkie]

Some East Coast Off Peak fares have gone down in price recently (e.g. York <> London).

Sadly it's not usual for fares to come down.

Around 2000 the York <> Doncaster flow didn't have a CDR, and one was introduced for £5, at a significant saving compared to the SDR. However it didn't take long for the price to start rising, and it's now more than 3 times that fare and is now only 70p less than the (extortionate) SDR.

 

[johnnycache]

i work for Southern

I'm happy to say many Southern fares have been reduced over the last few years. Generally speaking the maximum off-peak day return for journeys outside the London area is £15 irrespective of distance.

 

[All Line Rover]

i work for Southern

I'm happy to say many Southern fares have been reduced over the last few years. Generally speaking the maximum off-peak day return for journeys outside the London area is £15 irrespective of distance.

Compared to where I live, that is an absolute bargain!

 

[Goatboy]

i work for Southern

I'm happy to say many Southern fares have been reduced over the last few years. Generally speaking the maximum off-peak day return for journeys outside the London area is £15 irrespective of distance.

Just checked afew random longer trips - Southampton to Gatwick, Croydon and Brighton and you are right - all £15. Amusing to see the prices next to an option on SWT via Clapham Junction for twice the price despite only being 4 minutes quicker.

Great to see this sort thing going on. Nice one!

 

[wintonian]

I can go all the way from Winchester to Hastings (on a railcard) for £13.20 CDR or Dover Priory for £15.85 CDR or I can even go to both using an SDR for £17.15, which I think is a bargain, and makes up for the long journey and awful stock Southern run on the West Coast Way that I've been complaining about recently.

 

[island]

i work for Southern

I'm happy to say many Southern fares have been reduced over the last few years. Generally speaking the maximum off-peak day return for journeys outside the London area is £15 irrespective of distance.

[pedant]Super off-peak day return [/pedant]

 

[Greeby]

Are we talking about reducing the price of the actual basic fares, or just piling another gimmick fare into the basket? Because sadly in my area, I've seen too little of the former and too much of the latter.

 

[RJ]

[pedant]Super off-peak day return [/pedant]

I don't understand. I've looked at several random Southern fares for flows outside of London. True to jonnycache's word, the CDRs (Off Peak Day Returns) are all £15 or less. I haven't come across any Southern priced Super Off Peak Day returns for flows between two stations outside of London!

 

[island]

Looks like I've outwitted myself. Southampton Ctl to Croydon Stations is a super off-peak day return. So is Clapham Junction. Many others are CDRs, such as Southampton Ctl to Ashford Intl.

 

[Goatboy]

What a bizarre rail network we have where its possible to travel from Southampton to Ashford for just £15 return - a journey of some 130 miles - yet if you wish to go from Bristol to Birmingham, just 88 miles, you must pay £48. No doubt there are even shorter return tickets for even more money elsehwere on the network

 

[wintonian]

What a bizarre rail network we have where its possible to travel from Southampton to Ashford for just £15 return - a journey of some 130 miles - yet if you wish to go from Bristol to Birmingham, just 88 miles, you must pay £48. No doubt there are even shorter return tickets for even more money elsehwere on the network

Try this one:

Bournemouth - Dover Priory SDR £26 via Barnham 175 miles

Reading - London Terminals SDR £29.50 via Staines 43 miles

 

[RJ]

Looks like I've outwitted myself. Southampton Ctl to Croydon Stations is a super off-peak day return. So is Clapham Junction. Many others are CDRs, such as Southampton Ctl to Ashford Intl.

It's not fair! Those wishing to travel towards the big city for a day get Super Off Peak fares, yet those of us who might want to escape for a day don't . Just as well I wrought my GoVia Staff Pass for every last line of validity when I had it

 

[bnm]

Try this one:

Bournemouth - Dover Priory SDR £26 via Barnham 175 miles

Reading - London Terminals SDR £29.50 via Staines 43 miles

I'll raise you:

Weymouth - Broadstairs SDR £26 via Barnham 220 miles

Swindon - Didcot Parkway SDR £40.20 24 miles.

 

[Goatboy]

Best example yet. £40.20 for 24 miles?!

You'd use spend less on petrol doing that 48 mile round trip driving a Lambourghini than you'd spend on an SDR to do the same trip on the train.

 

[All Line Rover]

What a bizarre rail network we have where its possible to travel from Southampton to Ashford for just £15 return - a journey of some 130 miles - yet if you wish to go from Bristol to Birmingham, just 88 miles, you must pay £48. No doubt there are even shorter return tickets for even more money elsehwere on the network

Supply and demand. How many people make a DAY return journey from Southampton to Ashford that takes almost 4 hours in each direction? On an average day, probably none!

In contrast, how many people travel from Birmingham to Bristol each day? Hundreds, if not thousands. It is also possible to reduce the cost of Birmingham to Bristol ticket prices by buying Advance tickets or by splitting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Swindon - Didcot Parkway SDR £40.20 24 miles.

There is a reason why that fare is so high, why the 7DS is only £69.60, and why the CDR is only £9.90.

 

[Goatboy]

Supply and demand. How many people make a DAY return journey from Southampton to Ashford that takes almost 4 hours in each direction? On an average day, probably none!

I'm not really sure thats relevant - it would be if there was one train that only went from Southampton to Ashford and there was nobody on it, low prices would encourage people to use it. But thats not the case - you'll use two seperate trains which will have plenty of people using the seats making shorter journeys. The holder of a cheap Southampton to Croydon ticket for example may well use a Brighton to London service - far from suffering from a lack of demand!

In contrast, how many people travel from Birmingham to Bristol each day? Hundreds, if not thousands. It is also possible to reduce the cost of Birmingham to Bristol ticket prices by buying Advance tickets or by splitting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I guess that comes down to what you think the rail networks aim should be - provision of a public service or revenue generation for private companies who have a legal obgliation to maxmise shareholder value. I accept that currently, it is the latter and not the former and that in some areas this is what drives the pricing of various ticket flows.

On the Bristol to Birmingham example we now have the somewhat perverse situation whereby XC have been allowed to reduce the size of the trains from 7-8 coaches to 4-5, causing massive overcrowding on most, and then as a result use the concept of supply and demand to increase price. At first glance it makes the position reasonable - 'Our trains are filled to bursting point, we use price to moderate demand on these services' but then when you look at why they are so full...

I'll ignore the split ticketing argument as expecting the general public to split is unreasonable.

There is a reason why that fare is so high, why the 7DS is only £69.60, and why the CDR is only £9.90.

Whats the reason? (purely out of interest, as the 7DS seems reasonable as does the CDR).

 

[calc7]

Whats the reason? (purely out of interest, as the 7DS seems reasonable as does the CDR).

Same mantra as Virgin: penalising one-off/infrequent peak-time travel that businesses are willing to pay for.

 

[island]

Same mantra as Virgin: penalising one-off/infrequent peak-time travel that businesses are willing to pay for.

Would it not be that the 7DS is regulated?

 

[Zoe]

Isn't it to reduce the amount of revenue loss resulting from people splitting at Didcot?

 

[Goatboy]

Isn't it to reduce the amount of revenue loss resulting from people splitting at Didcot?

Does that mean a return to and from somewhere either side of Didcot is even more eyewateringly expensive?

 

[Zoe]

Does that mean a return to and from somewhere either side of Didcot is even more eyewateringly expensive?

Didcot to London Anytime Day Return is £54. From Swindon to London there is no Anytime Day Return available and the Anytime Return is £112.

 

[Goatboy]

Wow yea, 64 quid Swindon to Reading SOR!

It's only 39 miles!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Didcot to London Anytime Day Return is £54. From Swindon there is no Anytime Day Return available and the Anytime Return is £112.

Thats absolutely bonkers - it must surely be cheaper to hire a TAXI to drive you from Swindon to Didcot in order to then travel from Didcot. Madness.

 

[Zoe]

Advance fares are available from Swindon to Reading and London though whereas there are none from Didcot. I've just had a look and booking about a month in advance there are some less than £40 advance singles available on trains from Swindon to London between 0600 and 0900.

 

[All Line Rover]

In contrast, Swindon to Bath Spa, a slightly longer distance, costs just £15.10 for an SDR!

 

[Wath Yard]

What a bizarre rail network we have where its possible to travel from Southampton to Ashford for just £15 return - a journey of some 130 miles - yet if you wish to go from Bristol to Birmingham, just 88 miles, you must pay £48. No doubt there are even shorter return tickets for even more money elsehwere on the network

It's been like that for at least 25 years. In the old NSE area could buy CDRs to anywhere else in the NSE area, including I believe Exeter - Manningtree, whereas you couldn't for flows of a much shorter distance outside the NSE area. It used to work out vastly cheaper, and even cheaper than that if you had a Network Card.

 

[bicbasher]

St. Leonards Warrior Square to Southampton Central on Southern's WebTIS is £36.90 single, £38 CDR or Anytime Return £38.10. All are via Clapham Junction, despite it being possible to change at Haywards Heath or Brighton.

 

[island]

You can get a £15 ticket route VIA BARNHAM on that as well, but it might take some tinkering to get it to show up if it's a slower journey.