Tickets before travel issue?

[wijit]

Good evening all.
I've been reading a lot on here, and whilst I've never avoided buying a ticket and never would I may be inadvertently committing an offence.
I regularly catch a train locally, the station is manned in the ticket office during most office hours and has no other means of buying a ticket.
Very often there is a sign in the window (of the ticket office) saying the staff are performing other duties on the station, meaning I would then buy the ticket on the train. What happens quite often, especially if the train is busy, is the conductor/guard doesn't make it down the train for me to buy a ticket so I then buy a ticket at the end destination which I have never had any problems with.
Am I open to prosecution, or penalty fare upon arrival at the station if i do not have a ticket in these circumstances?
I should add, that I usually travel with Mrs wijit and wijit junior on this journey, which takes ten minutes/ For longer journeys I buy in advance and either collect at a main station or receive by post.
I have avoided saying the actual stations as I don't know if any of the above may get any members of staff in any trouble, this is not my intention at all but if the stations or TOC are needed I will post here, or by PM if required.

 

[34D]

Very often there is a sign in the window (of the ticket office) saying the staff are performing other duties on the station, meaning I would then buy the ticket on the train.

You are doing the right thing, and this is normal practice at smaller stations.

For your peace of mind, if you have a mobile phone with a camera, you may wish to take a photo of the sign for future reference, but in this circumstance you will be fine buying on train or at your destination.

 

[island]

Yes that is all fine. It is however a sad indictment of the system that you have become worried about prosecutions or penalty fares for this

 

[wintonian]

If you are informed that you may buy tickets on the train (by a notice or verbal communication) then the full range of tickets including discounts should be available to you at the first reasonable opportunity have to purchase one, this may be at the destination or an interchange station if the guard is unavailable.

 

[GadgetMan]

Yes that is all fine. It is however a sad indictment of the system that you have become worried about prosecutions or penalty fares for this

It is, however there are a number of passengers out there who regularly board trains without tickets claiming the ticket office was closed when it wasn't (confirmed with a quick phone call and the fact every other passenger managed to buy a ticket before boarding). These passengers will only pay for their journey when challenged otherwise they see it as a free ride. We need the deterrent and use of prosecutions to educate these passengers.

Unfortunately genuine and honest passengers sometimes get caught up in the net. The problem as mentioned in other threads is it isn't always easy to distinguish between the chancers/liars and the honest passengers.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If the sign said you can buy on board then you are fine. If there is no sign or notice stating you can buy on board, you might find yourself in hot water. Staff should be doing their best not to be away from the sales point when trains are due, but I know it is sometimes unavoidable.

 

[wintonian]

I once a long time ago asked for something at a ticket office (an excess I assume) who wouldn't do it for whatever reason and when I asked the guard they refused to do as well on the basis that the ticket office was open and therefore that was an opportunity to buy the ticket/ get it changed - it was irrelevant to them that the ticket office would not do it.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I once a long time ago asked for something at a ticket office (an excess I assume) who wouldn't do it for whatever reason and when I asked the guard they refused to do as well on the basis that the ticket office was open and therefore that was an opportunity to buy the ticket/ get it changed - it was irrelevant to them that the ticket office would not do it.

The Guard possibly thought you were "trying it on"! Maybe he didn't believe that the ticket office refused to do the excess!

 

[sheff1]

I once a long time ago asked for something at a ticket office (an excess I assume) who wouldn't do it for whatever reason and when I asked the guard they refused to do as well on the basis that the ticket office was open and therefore that was an opportunity to buy the ticket/ get it changed - it was irrelevant to them that the ticket office would not do it.

This is an interesting one. Again many years ago, Sheffield station refused to issue a Derbyshire Wayfarer. A guard, of course, cannot issue such a ticket as they do not have the stock, but I would have been most put out if they had wanted to charge me for something I didn't want on the grounds that there was an opportunity to buy at the station.

 

[Josie]

I've had similar - a Northern ticket office didn't know how to issue a Plusbus ticket so didn't issue any ticket and told me to pay on the train. The TPE guard was sympathetic but explained that he couldn't sell Plusbus either, and that as I'd had an opportunity to buy a ticket he could only sell me an Anytime ticket but that I should write to Northern to get it refunded. The ticket office at my destination were perfectly happy to sell the Plusbus addon on its own (I wish I'd known that at the start!) and a letter to Northern got me the extra money I paid back in travel vouchers.

 

[maniacmartin]

Josie, I would not have paid the Anytime fare and waited for a refund, and I certainly wouldn't accept a refund in Rail Travel Vouchers as a refund to being overcharged. Also, I beleive its TPE that should have issued the partial refund, not Northern, as they are the company that overcharged you.

The TPE guard's claim that he could only sell an Anytime ticket is totally incorrect, as you didn't have an opportunity to buy the ticket before boarding. If this happens again, it may help to ask the ticket office to put it in writing that they told you to buy on the train.

 

[Flamingo]

We usually get a pager message if Control are aware of issues around ticket sales at any station or on any train. It may not happen if the station is run by a diffrent TOC unless it is major disruption (i.e. We won't get a message if Jo working for ATW in Port Talbot had to run to the loo for 5 minutes)

 

[Josie]

The TPE guard's claim that he could only sell an Anytime ticket is totally incorrect, as you didn't have an opportunity to buy the ticket before boarding. If this happens again, it may help to ask the ticket office to put it in writing that they told you to buy on the train.

I did ask whether I'd need to buy any part-ticket or have any other authority to travel, and the man in the ticket office said no, it'd be fine. I was a bit less clued-up on ticketing then than I am now; in fact it was this which got me interested for the first time, I think. I went away and read up on it, went back to the same member of staff a couple of weeks later, told him he'd been wrong last time, bought the ticket again by telling him the NLC, and paid for it with the travel vouchers.

I'm not sure I'd accept the Anytime ticket now, although I'd probably go better prepared in the first place. I didn't mind the RTVs so much though because I was travelling regularly enough that I could use them straight away.

As for who should have processed the refund, I suppose I was considering it a bit like Delay Repay! It didn't seem particularly important where the delay minutes (fare overpaid) stacked up, the relevant bit I thought was where the first delay (lack of ticket provision) was caused, because if that had gone right the rest wouldn't have happened. I'm not too fussed about where my money ended up, happy for Northern and TPE to sort that out between themselves.