tickets available at the automated machines

[truckman060473]

from the automated machine at Carmarthen i can travel to Cardiff central for £15.10. as i am an enthusiast of loco hauled trains i went up there and was looking for a spin on the 14.00 taunton service (class 67 hauled) as far as Bristol Temple Meads (BRI). as i didn't want to buy a ticket to BRI if the service was cancelled, so i waited until i saw the train approach the platform at 13.55 (sometimes is visible in the distance at 13.50) i asked the FGW guard before boarding if i could buy a ticket to BRI on the train. he said yeah so i bought it. he said £9.40 return. so i get to BRI for £24.50. the price for a ticket from carmarthen to BRI at the auto ticket machine is £30.10. seeing as the same 67 hauled service was coming back at about 17.20 from BRI which i told the guard i'd be getting, he never said anything about peak or off peak fares when i asked and said i'd be ok with any return train from BRI. you'd expect a 17.20 train to be peak or not? i did save £5 odd on this journey though. any views on this?

 

[yorkie]

from the automated machine at Carmarthen i can travel to Cardiff central for £15.10. as i am an enthusiast of loco hauled trains i went up there and was looking for a spin on the 14.00 taunton service (class 67 hauled) as far as Bristol Temple Meads (BRI). as i didn't want to buy a ticket to BRI if the service was cancelled, so i waited until i saw the train approach the platform at 13.55 (sometimes is visible in the distance at 13.50) i asked the FGW guard before boarding if i could buy a ticket to BRI on the train. he said yeah so i bought it. he said £9.40 return. so i get to BRI for £24.50. the price for a ticket from carmarthen to BRI at the auto ticket machine is £30.10.

Yes, it's often cheaper to split tickets, or buy further than your destination/origin.

The only standard class rtn ticket available from Carmarthen (CMN) to Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) is £30.90 for an Off Peak Return (Valid for return within 1 month). This is valid at the following times:

OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid on any train.

RETURN TRAVEL
Valid on any train

However it is cheaper to get Day tickets by splitting at CDF, as an Anytime Day ticket from CMN to CDF is priced at £15.10 and it's cheaper still from CDF to BRI.

seeing as the same 67 hauled service was coming back at about 17.20 from BRI which i told the guard i'd be getting, he never said anything about peak or off peak fares when i asked and said i'd be ok with any return train from BRI. you'd expect a 17.20 train to be peak or not? i did save £5 odd on this journey though. any views on this?

There isn't such thing as a 'peak train' in relation to ticketing, at least not on a 'blanket' level. The way it works is each off peak ticket has a restriction code, which determines which trains you can/can't use. A train may be valid to some off peak ticket holders, but not others.

An Off Peak Day ticket from Cardiff Central (CDF) to Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) is valid at the following times:

OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train except those
timed to depart Mondays to
Fridays before 0930

RETURN TRAVEL
By any train

So the guard was correct.

 

[thefab444]

"Peak" fare restrictions **generally** only apply in the mornings outside of London.

With regards splitting fares being cheaper, it is indeed often the case.

 

[truckman060473]

so let's say if i wanted to travel to Cardiff central from carmarthen and the cheapest option on the ticket machine is "standard anytime return" at £15.10 would i be able to get this any cheaper by buying an "attempted" off peak fare at the human counter?? (travelling on a service later than 10am)

 

[yorkie]

he Pff Peak fare for CMN - CDF costs *more* than Anytime Day, so no. As posted earlier the Off peak is valid by any train (out and rtn within 1 month)

 

[John @ home]

so let's say if i wanted to travel to Cardiff central from carmarthen and the cheapest option on the ticket machine is "standard anytime return" at £15.10 would i be able to get this any cheaper by buying an "attempted" off peak fare at the human counter?? (travelling on a service later than 10am)

No The £15.10 Standard Anytime Day Return is the cheapest undiscounted return fare from Carmarthen to Cardiff using one ticket. But you can save a little by splitting at Swansea:

Carmarthen - Swansea Standard Anytime Day Return £7.30
Swansea - Cardiff Standard Off-Peak Day Return £6.20 Mon-Fri: not before 0900.
Total £13.50

It may be possible to save a little more by splitting somewhere else instead of, or as well as, Swansea. In general, the train must stop at the station(s) where you change from one ticket to another.

 

[truckman060473]

interesting. that's handy to know. can i just ask the reason why an off peak ticket is not available from Carm. to Swansea? i never leave on 9am or earlier trains

 

[yorkie]

interesting. that's handy to know. can i just ask the reason why an off peak ticket is not available from Carm. to Swansea? i never leave on 9am or earlier trains

Actually there is!

Off Peak Return £12.30 Valid on any train, return within 1 month.

There are no peak restrictions on that route, perhaps because there isn't a problem with capacity at certain times and/or perhaps it's not flow with a lot of commuters.

You can be sure that if peak restrictions were implemented, they'd rename the Anytime Day fare as Off Peak Day and give it restrictions and then introduce a higher priced ticket for travel at any time. That's what has happened in every other case I know of.

 

[truckman060473]

i have been through all the options on the ticket machine and never saw one for that price. the one i did see for standard off peak return within 1 month was about £20. is it only available at the ticket office? but maybe you mean the price just as far as Swansea is £12.30, that works out more expensive to get to Cardiff then if you buy separate off peak at Swansea

 

[tony_mac]

I am guessing that was a ticket to Cardiff and not Swansea.

There is an off-peak return to both Cardiff and Swansea, but if you are returning the same day it is much cheaper to buy an Anytime Day Return.

There is no off-peak day return for either of those journeys. There are no restrictions on the off-peak tickets anyway, so it doesn't really matter what they are called.

 

[yorkie]

i have been through all the options on the ticket machine and never saw one for that price. the one i did see for standard off peak return within 1 month was about £20.

To Cardiff?

The fares from CMN to CDF are:-

Off Peak Return £19.20 (Valid on any train, rtn within 1 month)
Anytime Day Return £15.10 (Valid on any train, on date shown only)

is it only available at the ticket office? but maybe you mean the price just as far as Swansea is £12.30, that works out more expensive to get to Cardiff then if you buy separate off peak at Swansea

All of the tickets should be available at both the ticket office and from the machines.

It's £12.30 Off Peak return to Swansea, and no this doesn't help when going to Cardiff.

 

[mathmo]

Sometimes the ticket machines don't sell all the tickets they should. In particular, the ticket machines at Cambridge only sell hideously expensive bus-only tickets (route "First X22/X30") to Stowmarket and Ipswich (or that was the case last time I checked). To get a cheaper ticket that actually allows you to use a train you have to go to the ticket office.

 

[yorkie]

I think the issue here is that the original poster is anticipating peak/off peak pricing for these flows, but no such differential exists on many of them. Yes, some obscure tickets do not appear on machines and this is particularly the case with rovers or strange routed tickets.

The Cambridge-Ipswich example is odd. I wonder how many people pay £79.80 for a First Day Return routed on the X22/X30 bus? I'm shocked to hear that the normal Any Permitted tickets were not available from the machines. Have you contacted NXEA about that? I'd be interested to hear an explanation!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Unfortunately the general confusion highlighted above is extremely common where ticket machines are involved, and I am sure it is a big money making scam by the TOCs and their beloved ticket machines.

The number of people I see travelling with "Anytime" tickets they have purchased at a ticket machine, when an "Off Peak" ticket would have been perfectly valid and significantly cheaper, is amazing. I started asking people and trying to advise them once, but there are simply so many that if I did that then I wouldn't get anything else done.

It seems to revolve around the OPs original conundrum - someone sees the words "Off Peak" on the ticket machine and then assume they can't use it as they are travelling in what they think is a peak time, and therefore the ticket isn't valid. Now as we all know the Railways idea of simplicity is far from it, and therefore there is no easy definition of "peak" or "off-peak". The average punter, forced into using the aforementioned ticket machines gets confused by the "Anytime" / "Off Peak" boundaries and plumps to buy the (normally) vastly overpriced Anytime ticket to avoid problems.

Stangely however, on the geniune Peak time trains the reverse seems to be the problem. People appearing with "Off Peak" tickets they have just purchased from the machine when they are not valid. The normal excuses of "The machine never told me" / "I've just brought it now so it must be valid" / "That man on the platform said it was ok" are wheeled out, but as in most of these early morning cases I think that lots of them are commuters or regulars trying it on I will excess them up to the correct peak fare, explain the restrictions, and ask them to contact Customer Relations should they have any concerns. I have checked before when I had time to kill, and the ticket machine did display the relevant restrictions when the buttons were pressed, so that excuse normally falls on deaf ears.

These situations are however going to get more common. As more and more offices close, and more and more machines appear, the cases of people being overcharged will no doubt increase.

Most Recent example : I passed through Leeds City (which is extremely busy) last Wednesday evening to meet a friend for food and beer. As I passed through the ticket office I noted that at 1700 on a Wednesday evening there was only 1 - yes 1 - ticket window open with an absolutely enormous queue. The huge bank of ticket machines were busy , but by no means were all in use. When I went back later on the queue had gone down a bit and 2 windows were now open - but by this time the travel centre had closed so all enquiries were now coming here as well! This is no doubt a deliberate ploy to get people to use machines and thus spend more money!

Example 2 : My Uncle visits occasionally from Salisbury to Yorkshire. He always used to go and visit Salisbury travel centre and arrange tickets - and he would always appear with some ludicrously cheap advance purchase tickets. SWT have now closed the travel centre and reduced the number of ordinary ticket windows that are open. But never fear, they have put in lots of nice machines. My uncle went to try and purchase advance tickets twice recently. On 1 occassion the queue was enormous and after a long wait he gave up and went home. The second time he went a similar situation, but apparently there was a member of staff "Queue Busting" and ushering people over to the machines to buy tickets. He asked about buying advance tickets and was alledgedly told that they don't have time for that any more unless it is very quiet and he should go home and buy them on the internet. It seems he did go home, but as he is no techno wizzard I dread to think what tickets he has ended up with. I did try and get him to use the East Coast site and gave him all the details and what to do, but it sounds like he has paid more than I think he should.

Multiply all these situations across the country, and the TOCs purses are onto a winner - reduce ticket offices and hence staff costs. Force punters to use unfriendly machines. Punter gets confused by said machine and variety of tickets and ends up paying more than they should. Costs down and ticket revenue up - KerChing!!