Tickets already been collected!

[claire490]

I booked train tickets ages ago to travel from Exeter this weekend and arranged to pick them up from the train station.
I went to pick up the tickets yesterday and it said that they had already been partly issued and to go to the office, which I did and they told me to call the helpline.
They have now told me that the tickets were collected today in Plymouth using my card (which you need together with the reference number to collect the tickets). Today I have been in Exeter all day with my card and therefore this is not physically possible. Also when I went to the machine yesterday it already said they had been issued. I am so so confused by this and am sure it must be a simple admin error.
They have said there's nothing they can do and I have to buy new tickets which will now cost me £35 each way instead of the original £7.90 each way I paid for advance tickets!
I don't know what to do and would really like some advice. I managed to get put through to a manager and he said to ring back tomorrow during the day and they'll be able to tell me what time the tickets were collected in Plymouth but I don't see how this will help me get my tickets reissued.
Any ideas?
Thanks.

 

[MikeWh]

Welcome to the forum.

Without wishing to alarm you if this thought hadn't already crossed your mind, but have you contacted your credit card issuer to check whether the card is being used by someone else? It does seem like a possibility that the card has been cloned.

In terms of your train tickets, there is probably not a lot the train company can do. If your card has been compromised then I guess the police might be interested if someone turns up to use your seats at the weekend. It may not be the same people, of course, but it could be a lead.

 

[transportphoto]

Welcome to the forum.

Without wishing to alarm you if this thought hadn't already crossed your mind, but have you contacted your credit card issuer to check whether the card is being used by someone else? It does seem like a possibility that the card has been cloned.

In terms of your train tickets, there is probably not a lot the train company can do. If your card has been compromised then I guess the police might be interested if someone turns up to use your seats at the weekend. It may not be the same people, of course, but it could be a lead.

In which case which Police force would need to be contacted?

British Transport Police?

I am asking this question to help the OP as it is a thought that has just crossed my mind to which I can not answer.

 

[claire490]

I have checked my bank activity and nothing has been withdrawn/paid for that I haven't done myself.
Surely a thief wouldn't collect rail tickets and not bother stealing any money? How would they even know I had rail tickets to collect?
This did cross my mind but I dismissed it given there is no other abnormal activity from my account. Do I still need to contact the bank?
Thanks for your help.

 

[SS4]

I would contact your regional police force on their non-emergency number.

Better to contact your card issuer, unless you were responsible via negligence the bank tends to pay out a certain amount.

 

[MikeWh]

If nothing has happened on your card then it does seem unlikely that that is the problem. I'd probably wait and see what the train company say tomorrow then. I guess there could be a technical error, but I'm no expert.

For peace of mind you may wish to consider changing your PIN. If you do report the possibility that the card might have been compromised then expect the bank to cancel it immediately and issue a new one. You'll be unable to use it for around a week. It's your call really. In your shoes I'd be pleased nothing unexplained had happened and I'd be checking transactions daily for quite a while. If the TOC are adamant that it was collected using your card then I'd probably report it, having prepared for cancellation by doing a food shop or withdrawing some cash, depending on what sort of card it is.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I have checked my bank activity and nothing has been withdrawn/paid for that I haven't done myself.

. . . . .
there is no other abnormal activity from my account. Do I still need to contact the bank?

I strongly advise it, and follow up your request in writing. They will probably issue you with a new card and new number and automatically change as many of your reqular payments over to the new account number for you.

Even if there has not been any fraudulent activity, you don't want to find out too late.
And if there has been a technical error within the rail company's system, then better to have the bank 'on your side' while pursuing it.

Take up the offer of calling back tomorrow, and get as much info as poss: the name of the person you speak to, the machine identifying number which printed the tickets, the identification used to release the tickets, the precise time, confirmation that the station will hold onto the CCTV for the Police (and burn it onto a DVD for them), and any other details about the booking including the transactions immedately before and after the one which involved your tickets.

As for the 'lost' tickets. I strongly advise you to provide a witness statement / affidavit stating where you were at the time the tickets were, aledgedly, collected with your card. If you are absolutely blameless, then you should buy the replacement tickets and then make a claim to have the 'missing' ones refunded to you.

I agree it seems implausible that someone just a few tens of miles away had your booking reference, your card number and knowledge that the booking was ready for collection. But this is where we have to be careful . . .
Could someone else have had access to your email messages (on your computer(s) or elsewhere (there will be a confirmation email) ? Could someone else have had access to your discarded print out of the booking? Has anyone ever access to your bank cards? You will definitely be asked these questions by the Police, and are the simplest explanations, whether you like them or not!

In which case which Police force would need to be contacted?
British Transport Police?

No.
Devon & Cornwall Constabulary. If it has been done as a criminal act then its theft by deception or fraud, depending on how it was achieved.

 

[CliveJones]

The fact it was collected in another location strongly suggests some kind of fraud.

 

[142094]

As has been suggested, I'd be ringing your bank again and asking for the card to be stopped. It could be some sort of system error but I've never come across anything like this.

In some cases you don't have to enter a booking reference on the ticket machine for it to start printing, and seeing as you've had the card on you all day it sounds like it has been cloned.

 

[route:oxford]

Or mistake...

I know that any card will do for rail tickets booked through my work travel agent. Could some poor sod have been Penalty Fared having boarding the right train with the wrong tickets after miskeying the 8 digit code?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Or mistake...

I know that any card will do for rail tickets booked through my work travel agent. Could some poor sod have been Penalty Fared having boarding the right train with the wrong tickets after miskeying the 8 digit code?

I hesitate to respond for fear of confusing the OP with 'off-topic interest', but I have to agree. There are weaknesses within the ticket collection system, and it helps no one to advertise them on here. So I shall not respond to them on here.

But I will make one point which would not assist 'a rogue', if the OP (the customer), has fulfilled all of their obligations, and acted in good faith, and the charge has been deducted from their account, and has evidence to demonstrate their actions, and can substantiate that they have completed all the Terms and Conditions of the contract supplied by the TOC, and are now simply waiting for the TOC to fulfill their obligations under the Contract before the date of travel, then, in these few days between payment and travel, the onus is on the TOC to provide their response - a ticket authorising travel. Or a refund.

One more important distinction: the online booking and TVM machines both accept (as far as am aware) either Debit or Credit Cards; but the legal framework applying to those is different. You simply said 'my card', but not Debit or Credit card.
There is a big difference in your rights and protection, depending on which card it is. [You don't need to advertise the card on here - maybe you shouldn't. Just be aware of that distinction before you take any further action.]

 

[bb21]

Or mistake...

I know that any card will do for rail tickets booked through my work travel agent. Could some poor sod have been Penalty Fared having boarding the right train with the wrong tickets after miskeying the 8 digit code?

How are these 8-digit code generated anyway? Is one/two of the digits used as checksums? That way it would have been pretty impossible to key in one/two incorrect characters and still be a valid code.

 

[barrykas]

The fact it was collected in another location strongly suggests some kind of fraud.

Some other possibilities present themselves:

• If booked over the phone with FGW, it's possible they accidentally ticketed them rather than setting them up for collection. Though if that were the case, they should be able to see that on their system.
• Depending on how long ago the tickets were booked, the transaction may have "timed out" and auto-fulfilled in the system.
• The OP's card has been cloned and, for some reason, the person doing the cloning, or an accomplice, tried it to see if there were any tickets on there, and wasn't asked for the booking reference.

Without access to the booking, however, it's difficult to say for sure whether it was a Telesales, Ticket Office or TVM fulfilment.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[nag67]

I had a similar thing last week.

Tickets booked online with SWT, and collection at Woking machine.

I got the same error message for first set of two sets booked for the one trip (split tickets). The second set issued OK.

However, when I immediately tried to retrieve the first set for a second time, the tickets were issued correctly. No idea why.

 

[MichaelAMW]

But I will make one point which would not assist 'a rogue', if the OP (the customer), has fulfilled all of their obligations, and acted in good faith, and the charge has been deducted from their account, and has evidence to demonstrate their actions, and can substantiate that they have completed all the Terms and Conditions of the contract supplied by the TOC, and are now simply waiting for the TOC to fulfill their obligations under the Contract before the date of travel, then, in these few days between payment and travel, the onus is on the TOC to provide their response - a ticket authorising travel. Or a refund.

This is basically the point that bothers me: the "we can't do anything about it" approach is offensive. They have introduced a method for ticket issue but don't seem to take a lot of responsibility for its operation. The OP has paid for the tickets but doesn't yet have them and has done absolutely done nothing wrong. To just, in effect, 'fine' them for some problem somewhere in the process outrages me! The fact that they are Advance tickets means they can quite easily check if they are being used by someone else and, thus, exonerate the real owner of the journey.

Is it worth asking FGW (or whomever) to do this? Or am I in fantasy land again...?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Let's put to bed this nonsense about the card being cloned, it is absurd. No fraudulent transaction has taken place on the statement and the idea that they might try and see if some train tickets could be retrieved is laughable.

Stop trying to scare the OP.

FGW Customer Service (it sounds like mamagement are involved which is a good thing) and if no acceptable resolution then Passenger Focus should be the path to resolving this. No system is infallible and the fact that the tickets were apparently picked up but not at the right station also points to system error.

 

[route101]

Lately ive been trying to use cash at TVMs or Using the Ticket office as ive heard FSR tvms have been overcharging and tvms could be fitted with cloning devices .
Hopefully this is just a system error

 

[island]

The fact that they are Advance tickets means they can quite easily check if they are being used by someone else and, thus, exonerate the real owner of the journey.

I'm not sure how you would propose going about checking whether the tickets have been used, short of searching the capture bin at the ticket gates at the destination, assuming it has gates!

 

[MichaelAMW]

I'm not sure how you would propose going about checking whether the tickets have been used, short of searching the capture bin at the ticket gates at the destination, assuming it has gates!

I was thinking, if one is assuming fraudulent activity, picking up the culprit via the on-train ticket check - only one train needs checking as it's an Advance. (My method would be rubbish for an 'open' return!)

 

[island]

I suppose. Probably a lot of dominoes to line up though.

 

[Deerfold]

I booked train tickets ages ago to travel from Exeter this weekend and arranged to pick them up from the train station.
I went to pick up the tickets yesterday and it said that they had already been partly issued and to go to the office, which I did and they told me to call the helpline.

I'm not sure of how this all woks technically, but can tickets be partially issued from a machine? To me this would suggest they'd been issued at an office - and increase the chances of the wrong ones being issued.

 

[island]

I believe if a single booking code contains multiple journeys, you can print off some but not all of the journeys.

For example if I go onto East Coast and book myself and Mrs. Island a return from London to Dundee and a return from Doncaster to Hull, I can get these as part of a single booking. If I go up to the machine and retrieve the booking, it'll offer me the option to print either the London-Dundee or the Donny-Hull tickets (or both).

What I can't do is print my ticket and leave Mrs. Island's one behind.

 

[moonrakerz]

Let's put to bed this nonsense about the card being cloned, it is absurd. No fraudulent transaction has taken place on the statement and the idea that they might try and see if some train tickets could be retrieved is laughable.
Stop trying to scare the OP.

Totally agree - if I had cloned someone's credit/debit card I think I would be using it on something a little more valuable than two cheap Advance train tickets ! Apart from which, how did they know that these tickets were awaiting collection anyway ?

I have written to FGW (in Plymouth) on two occasions; one was (tbh!) pushing my luck, the other was semi complaint/semi comment. The first occasion I got a full refund, the second got me £20 in vouchers.
My advice would be, do what you have to do to carry out your journey; then write a clear, concise letter to FGW.
It does sound like some sort of "foul up" in their system.

 

[317 forever]

A concern I have, although it hasn't actually caused me any trouble yet, is this. When I have booked just one ticket online and enter the card into the fast ticket machine, the tickets were immediately printed without asking me to input the reference number.

This means that if we mislaid our card or it was stolen, someone could put it in the fast ticket machine "on the offchance" and obtain our rail tickets too.

This lax in ticket security really needs tightening up.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This lax in ticket security really needs tightening up.

Does it?
Technically, that situation is possible, you are quite correct.
Some might argue that the need to type-in the booking reference number increases the security, but - if someone has got your card, and then also having access to your emails, or the bits of paper you carry around with you and your cards, then maybe that extra requirement (the booking ref no) isn't much of an additional challenge to the thief.

But MUCH more to the point is, surely, this: If a person intending to exploit the unauthorised posession of your debit or credit cards wishes to travel, then its very unlikely that they'd bother using your stolen card to walk into an arbitrary railway station with TVM machines to see if there might be any journey booked between any two stations anywhere in the country that is likely to have any value to them (or to anyone else). I could go on to elaborate, but hopefully you can work it out for yourself - any thief with a stolen credit card is hardly likely to go off to their nearest railway station to see if there might be a half-completed transaction for a train ticket! There are many more lucrative and immediate things to do with stolen credit cards!

 

[Flamingo]

Apropos of nothing, I have seen a warning this week of "skimming" machines being attached to ticket machines.

 

[flymo]

My own experience of credit cards and reference numbers is that if I have more that 1 booking, so 2 or more reference numbers booked on the same card, the machine will ask for the reference number so it knows which tickets to dispense. In my experience, only the tickets booked on the relevant reference number will be issued, not the other ones booked on the same card. If there is just one booking then no reference number is asked for and the tickets are dispensed as soon as the card is inserted.

I think that's how I remember it working, for me anyway.

 

[penaltyfines]

If you don't get a resolution by the time you need to travel, depending on how much you want to push the train operating company in question, I would either:

(a) Buy new tickets (at non-advance prices), and pursue a refund for these full-price ones from the merchant that originally sold the advance tickets (they will be liable due to breach of contract - Supply of Goods and Services will probably apply, or some variant thereof)

(b) Board the train with evidence of the situation, receipt etc, especially if you are travelling with the same company that sold the tickets. If the guard issues a UPFN, don't pay anything and send off the details with the form and let the ToC deal with it.

 

[radamfi]

If there is just one booking then no reference number is asked for and the tickets are dispensed as soon as the card is inserted.

This is a bit hit and miss IME. I usually only have one booking so normally when I use a certain type of machine (e.g. Southern ones) the tickets come out straight away withouth the booking reference. However, using the same machine, sometimes that doesn't happen even if I don't have any other bookings, making me wonder if there are any bookings that I have forgot to pick up.

With the more modern machines, e.g. SWT, you always need the booking reference.

 

[Spudd]

On the last few occasions when picking up tickets at Man Piccadilly using the VT ticket machines I have just used the card without any need for the reference code.


Andy