Ticketless travel

[deltic]

While doing some research into ticketless travel I came across this survey on South Central https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...data/file/4200/ticketlesstravelsurvey-SCF.pdf

which suggests 8% fare evasion although in some cases it may not be deliberate eg people travelling at times when their ticket is not valid may be down to them not understanding the system.

What I was trying to find out is whether paper ticket gates capture enough information to target people doughnuting the system. Eg buying a season ticket from Brighton to Preston Park and one from Clapham Junction to Victoria. So would the gate note that the last ticket never goes through a gate at Clapham Junction and flag a warning? One suggestion is that smart cards would be able to do this and allow for intelligence led ticket checking to virtually eliminate season ticket fraud of this nature.

 

[transmanche]

What I was trying to find out is whether paper ticket gates capture enough information to target people doughnuting the system. Eg buying a season ticket from Brighton to Preston Park and one from Clapham Junction to Victoria. So would the gate note that the last ticket never goes through a gate at Clapham Junction and flag a warning?

I don't know about gates at NR stations, but on LU there's a specific error code 54 (or 55, depending on source) "Possible Dumbbell" (doughnutting just being an alternative word for dumbbelling). Plenty of people have been caught doing this, I understand the error code won't always prevent entry/exit, but is used by inspectors to note suspects who may then be followed (or have CCTV checked) to prove intent to defraud.

 

[PermitToTravel]

While doing some research into ticketless travel I came across this survey on South Central https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...data/file/4200/ticketlesstravelsurvey-SCF.pdf

which suggests 8% fare evasion although in some cases it may not be deliberate eg people travelling at times when their ticket is not valid may be down to them not understanding the system.

What I was trying to find out is whether paper ticket gates capture enough information to target people doughnuting the system. Eg buying a season ticket from Brighton to Preston Park and one from Clapham Junction to Victoria. So would the gate note that the last ticket never goes through a gate at Clapham Junction and flag a warning? One suggestion is that smart cards would be able to do this and allow for intelligence led ticket checking to virtually eliminate season ticket fraud of this nature.

No, they're not that clever

 

[deltic]

Thanks Fahad

 

[Urban Gateline]

Thanks Fahad

That is why RPI's operate on trains, I'm sure if they came across anyone with such a combination they would report them for prosecution, same with someone travelling from an unbarriered outpost into London with a z1-2 Travelcard only and using that to get out of the barriers in London!

 

[Simon11]

Yep, as rightly as you say Deltic, with smartcards it will be easy to identity what customers are 'sandwiching'. But what is to stop a person having two smartcards?

Do we go down the route of having a named person for each Smartcard, along with a picture of the user?

 

[thebigcheese]

It would still be possible for instance to buy two 'open' returns between somewhere like Brighton and London to show to any RPI who rarely happen to board and use a Brighton - Preston Park and Clapham Junction - Victoria ticket each day to work the barriers.

Almost impossible to detect!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yep, as rightly as you say Deltic, with smartcards it will be easy to identity what customers are 'sandwiching'. But what is to stop a person having two smartcards?

Do we go down the route of having a named person for each Smartcard, along with a picture of the user?

I really worry that they're going to "solve" this by making everyone touch in and out every journey.

The issue with such a method is that it doesn't stop the abuse - people still hop off trains from The Shires at Clapham to touch in (presumably on PAYG) and head back towards the trains - but it would penalise any legitimate passengers wanting to combine a smartcard ticket with anything else.
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It would still be possible for instance to buy two 'open' returns between somewhere like Brighton and London to show to any RPI who rarely happen to board and use a Brighton - Preston Park and Clapham Junction - Victoria ticket each day to work the barriers.

Almost impossible to detect!

I've always wondered about the people who ask to buy a ticket aboard a train that left a barriered platform at Paddington, and whether this is what they're doing... they can't all be double gating
Of course I only get to wonder this one of the negligibly few times I've had my ticket checked out of Paddington...