Ticketing Query for you all!

[Arriva158]

Dear all *who can help*
Mr Purchase has just rung me aboard an EMT service to Ely with a query for you all....
Got on a train at Peterborough with the intention of buying a Radcliffe-on-trent to Cambridge off peak return with a YP discount as there were no adequate facilities to buy this ticket at the station i was told by the guard i could not do this transaction as i could have bought the ticket at the station however if the machine wouldnt sell me the ticket i wanted why should i be invalid from recieving a discount on the train. He's onboard the 2137 EMT to Norwich from peterborough in the hands of 158799!
Many Thanks
Chris + Mike

 

[scotsman]

Sounds like he's in the right

 

[sheff1]

Dear all *who can help*
Mr Purchase has just rung me aboard an EMT service to Ely with a query for you all....
Got on a train at Peterborough with the intention of buying a Radcliffe-on-trent to Cambridge off peak return with a YP discount as there were no adequate facilities to buy this ticket at the station i was told by the guard i could not do this transaction as i could have bought the ticket at the station however if the machine wouldnt sell me the ticket i wanted why should i be invalid from recieving a discount on the train. He's onboard the 2137 EMT to Norwich from peterborough in the hands of 158799!
Many Thanks
Chris + Mike

I assume he bought a ticket (for part of the journey) which was on the machine and was looking for an excess ?

 

[yorkie]

If there are no ticket issuing facilities at the station that you can use (e.g. if they machine won't accept card and you don't have cash, or vice-versa) then of course you can buy on board.

The problem is where the ticket you want is not on the machine, you are supposed to buy a ticket of lesser value and then exchange it on the train. This is a huge amount of hassle for both the purchaser and the guard so this rule rarely seems to be enforced (except perhaps in Penalty Fare areas). If there is an interchange station you can get it exchanged there if there is sufficient time between trains. There is no requirement to miss an onward train at an interchange station to purchase or exchange a ticket, however some staff do make up such a rule!

See this topic, the OP could not buy the ticket he wanted.... although it turned out we were able to find him a cheaper ticket by buying further than his destination, due to the UK ticketing system being utterly bonkers!

And if a guard refused to sell me a discounted ticket when I knew I'd be entitled to, I'd say I didn't have any more cash in my account (or in my wallet) to pay for a higher priced ticket so if he wanted to charge me any more than that he would have to issue an UnPaid Fare Notice (UPFN). I would immediately draft a letter which I would send when I got a demand for the UPFN to be paid, which I would send to the TOC and Revenue Support Services and a copy to Passenger Focus making it absolutely clear I was entitled to the cheaper fare and would be paying that and no further amount.

 

[Arriva158]

I assume he bought a ticket (for part of the journey) which was on the machine and was looking for an excess ?

I think he had a ticket anyway! Not sure, he was delayed on an East Coast service which eventually ran via Leeds then down Donny to Peterborough non-stop avoiding his station at Grantham, does this mean he's not in the right?

 

[sheff1]

I think he had a ticket anyway! Not sure, he was delayed on an East Coast service which eventually ran via Leeds then down Donny to Peterborough non-stop avoiding his station at Grantham, does this mean he's not in the right?

I'm afraid I no longer understand the question, so over to Yorkie who is far better qualified than me.

 

[Arriva158]

question is... Why is the guard not allowing him to use a YP discount on the EMT service?

 

[yorkie]

question is... Why is the guard not allowing him to use a YP discount on the EMT service?

I don't know but just say you don't have any more money than required therefore it will have to be a UPFN. The guard may realise it's a lot of hassle and back down, but if not, the customer can appeal the UPFN. An appeal should be relatively straightforward I would have thought!

If the customer hands over the full fare then getting it back will be harder.

Be sure to get the guard's name too, he needs re-training!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think he had a ticket anyway! Not sure, he was delayed on an East Coast service which eventually ran via Leeds then down Donny to Peterborough non-stop avoiding his station at Grantham, does this mean he's not in the right?

This makes no sense in relation to the original post.

We need to know:
What exactly was his origin station for his journey? What time did he arrive at the station? What facilities were at the station? What did he want to purchase, and what was available?
Where was his destination? How many interchanges were on the route, where were they and how much time did he actually have at each interchange?
If he was already in possession of some ticket(s) what exactly were they and was he planning to combine them with a ticket from a particular place, if so where?

 

[networkrail1]

question is... Why is the guard not allowing him to use a YP discount on the EMT service?

For the main reason that peterborough (PBO) has 3 ticket machines that are on 24/7, so he could have easily bought the ticket at PBO even if the ticket office was closed.

So the guard is in the right and does not have to sell him the discount as he could of bought the discounted ticket from a machine at PBO.

Hope this helps.

All the best.

Simon

 

[RJ]

If the passenger was in possession of a valid railcard there's no reason why the guard should have denied the discount if the ticket office at Peterborough was shut.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For the main reason that peterborough (PBO) has 3 ticket machines that are on 24/7, so he could have easily bought the ticket at PBO even if the ticket office was closed.

So the guard is in the right and does not have to sell him the discount as he could of bought the discounted ticket from a machine at PBO.

Hope this helps.

All the best.

Simon

How do you buy a Radcliffe-on-Trent - Cambridge Saver from a TVM at Peterborough?

 

[yorkie]

For the main reason that peterborough (PBO) has 3 ticket machines that are on 24/7, so he could have easily bought the ticket at PBO even if the ticket office was closed.

He didn't start his journey at PBO.

We therefore need to know what the interchange time was at PBO.

Also do the machines accept all methods of payment?

So the guard is in the right and does not have to sell him the discount as he could of bought the discounted ticket from a machine at PBO.

For your statement to be correct, as needs to be changed to if.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How do you buy a Radcliffe-on-Trent - Cambridge Saver from a TVM at Peterborough?

Exactly, although I suppose by the 'letter of the law' you should - if there is sufficient interchange time - buy that ticket and then on the train be honest and say "Actually I came from Radcliffe-on-Trent and there was no opportunity to buy a ticket until Peterborough where all I could buy was this ticket, can you excess it?" If doing a single and the difference is negligible there's a chance the guard may say "don't worry about it". Alternatively an excess should be given.

 

[Dreadnought]

I don't understand where the East Coast service comes in to it on this journey?

However, according to National Rail website Radcliffe-on-Trent is an unmanned station with no ticket selling facilities so not sure why the railcard is being refused anyway!

 

[theblackwatch]

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that some people are quite happy to call people on here 'veg' by holding things up on train windows yet then expect to be helped out when they have a problem!

 

[networkrail1]

He didn't start his journey at PBO.

Got on a train at Peterborough with the intention of buying a Radcliffe-on-trent to Cambridge off peak return with a YP discount as there were no adequate facilities to buy this ticket at the station i was told by the guard i could not do this transaction as i could have bought the ticket at the station however if the machine wouldnt sell me the ticket i wanted why should i be invalid from recieving a discount on the train. He's onboard the 2137 EMT to Norwich from peterborough in the hands of 158799!
Many Thanks
Chris + Mike

Am i reading wrong then or did he intend to buy the ticket on the EMT service from PBO to ELY.

All the best.

Simon

 

[theblackwatch]

Just because you get on a train somewhere doesn't mean that's where you've started your journey!

 

[yorkie]

Am i reading wrong then or did he intend to buy the ticket on the EMT service from PBO to ELY.

All the best.

Simon

We don't have enough info to help with this query, and furthermore it no longer makes sense. I think it best that we wait until my questions in post #8 are answered before commenting further.

Just because you get on a train somewhere doesn't mean that's where you've started your journey!

True, we need to know that. It now sounds like his journey may have started somewhere like York or Leeds! We really need to know the full details at the beginning.

We can't help Mr Purchase with his ticket purchase query until we have more info

 

[Greenback]

I'm afraid I still don't understand the question!

Yorkie beat me to it!

 

[networkrail1]

Well from what i make of the question the OP is asking.

He boarded a train at PBO intending to pay for a ticket from Radcliffe-on-Trent to Cambridge, due to the fact that the train that he got went straight passed every station to PBO (including his own Grantham), so he could not buy the ticket.

Once on the EMT service from PBO to ELY he asked the guard for a YP railcard discount to which the guard refused saying that he has already left a station that had a ticket office or ticket machine that was open.

That's what i make of it anyway.

All the best.

Simon

 

[yorkie]

Well from what i make of the question the OP is asking.

He boarded a train at PBO intending to pay for a ticket from Radcliffe-on-Trent to Cambridge, due to the fact that the train that he got went straight passed every station to PBO (including his own Grantham), so he could not buy the ticket.

Once on the EMT service from PBO to ELY he asked the guard for a YP railcard discount to which the guard refused saying that he has already left a station that had a ticket office or ticket machine that was open.

That's what i make of it anyway.

All the best.

Simon

In which case we need to know where his journey was from, and what the interchange time was, before we can comment further.

Just because someone boards at a station that has ticket issuing facilities that does not necessarily mean customers should be denied discounts. More info is required.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

What is important is the origin station for the journey, it appears this was not Peterborough, so whilst they might seek a ticket there (there is no requirement to do so), this is not important.

If the first station (where the traveller boarded their first train) DID NOT have full ticketing facilities (or atleast enough to purchase the neccesary ticket) the guard on any train should sell it with the discount.

If the first station DID have facilities to issue the ticket required the guard does not have to give the railcard discount, and in many cases can issue the full fare or a penalty fare as appropriate.

 

[Railjet]

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that some people are quite happy to call people on here 'veg' by holding things up on train windows yet then expect to be helped out when they have a problem!

At the risk of appearing stupid, may I politely ask for an explanation of what this is all about?

 

[theblackwatch]

It refers to the antics of the person referred to by the OP in post 1 on the last Red Dot Day at Market Harborough when he saw several staff off this forum on the platform from the train he was on board!

 

[Andrew Nelson]

For the main reason that peterborough (PBO) has 3 ticket machines that are on 24/7, so he could have easily bought the ticket at PBO even if the ticket office was closed.

So the guard is in the right and does not have to sell him the discount as he could of bought the discounted ticket from a machine at PBO.

Hope this helps.

All the best.

Simon

You obviously haven't had to use too many Ticket Machines in the North, as I have pointed out afore, loads don't sell anything like the full range of Tickets.

Of the 4 at Wakefield Westgate, none sell the Pensioners Discounted tickets. And the Ticket Office (Laughingly called the Travel Centerer) has horrendously short opening Hours.

 

[323235]

If there are no ticket issuing facilities at the station that you can use (e.g. if they machine won't accept card and you don't have cash, or vice-versa) then of course you can buy on board.

The problem is where the ticket you want is not on the machine, you are supposed to buy a ticket of lesser value and then exchange it on the train. This is a huge amount of hassle for both the purchaser and the guard so this rule rarely seems to be enforced (except perhaps in Penalty Fare areas). If there is an interchange station you can get it exchanged there if there is sufficient time between trains. There is no requirement to miss an onward train at an interchange station to purchase or exchange a ticket, however some staff do make up such a rule!

I did exactly this recently when I was at Kidsgrove a few weeks ago wanting to buy a Cheshire Day Ranger, where the ticket office was closed and there was only a Ticket Machine which obviously did not sell the ticket I required. No one would exchange the ticket (A Single to Crewe) for a Cheshire Day Ranger. The guard on board the EMT service told me his ticket machine was not able to it and the lovely people at Crewe told me it was not possible to do because I had used the ticket and that I should in future board the train without getting a ticket :roll:, surely bad advice considering Kidsgrove is a Penalty Fare station with London Midland . They said I could only do an Exchange if the Ticket Vending Machine issued me with an Exchange Voucher. I have never seen such a thing on any ticket machine including at Kidsgrove. In the end I gave up and bought a Cheshire Day Ranger at the full price of £11.90.

I wasn't under any obligation to buy a ticket at Kidsgrove as I had come from my local station (Poynton) where the Booking Office was closed and there is no ticket machine/PERTIS as it's not a penalty fare station, however the Guard never came round to issue me with the required ticket so when I got to Kidsgrove I thought i'd conduct an experiment to see what happened if I bought a ticket to exchange on the train and as you can tell it was a spectacular failure. So it seems in some cases people cannot win whichever route they take and could end up out of pocket through no fault of there own.