Ticket validity during engineering works

[andythebrave]

My daughter holds an off peak return from Bedford to Brighton and is leaving tomorrow when the suggested route is to Three Bridges with a bus from there.
Is she allowed to change at East Croydon for the Southern Brighton service that is diverted via Horsham and Littlehampton?
NRE says no but I thought that a direct train was always valid.

 

[30907]

Provided her ticket is valid on Southern, that's OK.

 

[AlterEgo]

My daughter holds an off peak return from Bedford to Brighton and is leaving tomorrow when the suggested route is to Three Bridges with a bus from there.
Is she allowed to change at East Croydon for the Southern Brighton service that is diverted via Horsham and Littlehampton?
NRE says no but I thought that a direct train was always valid.

If she’s travelling from Bedford to Brighton then the direct train rule means it’s got to be a direct train between those two points. Changing at East Croydon means it’s not a direct train.

What route is on the ticket?

 

[a_c_skinner]

direct train rule means it’s got to be a direct train

I thought the direct train rule meant the direct train was automatically valid even if the route was otherwise not valid, not an imposition of a need to take a direct train in preference to anything else if a direct train exists. Apologies if I've not understood.

 

[AlterEgo]

I thought the direct train rule meant the direct train was automatically valid even if the route was otherwise not valid, not an imposition of a need to take a direct train in preference to anything else if a direct train exists. Apologies if I've not understood.

Yes but the train isn’t direct between Bedford and Brighton, which is where the ticket is between. It’s not a direct train at all between those two points. You have to change at East Croydon. So, you can’t use the rule in this scenario.

That doesn’t mean that because a direct train exists you have to use it, it just means you can’t apply the rule.

The key here therefore is the route on the ticket.

 

[30907]

Sorry, but the direct train rule applies between any two stations where the ticket is valid. For example, some years ago (the service no longer exists) I used the return half of a Shipley-London ticket to travel Liverpool Street - Peterborough on a through train and onward to Shipley.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, but the direct train rule applies between any two stations where the ticket is valid. For example, some years ago (the service no longer exists) I used the return half of a Shipley-London ticket to travel Liverpool Street - Peterborough on a through train and onward to Shipley.

This is a mapped route anyway (map AY).

Can you clarify the rule please?

 

[Merseysider]

Sorry, but the direct train rule applies between any two stations where the ticket is valid. For example, some years ago (the service no longer exists) I used the return half of a Shipley-London ticket to travel Liverpool Street - Peterborough on a through train and onward to Shipley.

It applies between the origin and destination shown on the ticket, only.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry, but the direct train rule applies between any two stations where the ticket is valid. For example, some years ago (the service no longer exists) I used the return half of a Shipley-London ticket to travel Liverpool Street - Peterborough on a through train and onward to Shipley.

As others have pointed out that’s just not correct. That’s a mapped route anyway and nothing to do with the direct train rule.

 

[alistairlees]

As others have pointed out that’s just not correct. That’s a mapped route anyway and nothing to do with the direct train rule.

Map AY covers (among other things) journeys from Liverpool Street to Peterborough via Cambridge and Ely. However, I suspect that 30907 was on a direct Liverpool Street to Peterborough train that actually went via Colchester, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Bury St Edmunds and Ely.

If I recall correctly, it was "One" that introduced these in 2004. They were operated by 170s and were to provide a direct service from Bury St Edmunds line to London. The same went for direct trains to Lowestoft.

30907 would most definitely not have been valid on this train (if he was on it), as it is neither mapped nor direct.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Thanks of the clarification. Is VICtoria -BrighToN via Littlehampton mapped and therefore valid for route any permitted? I'm getting fed up with VIC-BTN via Haywards Heath. It wouldn't be doubling back would it as it doesn't involve passing the same station twice, does it?

I did think of the Peterborough to Liverpool Street when I was doing the ECML regularly, but I didn't realise it applied only to trains direct between the two points on the ticket.

Personally I don't see why there should more than one rule, which says "You mustn't go a long way out of your way" but I can see that would be difficult to enforce!

Edit: Actually it wouldn't be difficult to enforce, if someone is daft enough to go the pretty way just let them, because almost everyone will want the quickest trip.

 

[30907]

I suspect that 30907 was on a direct Liverpool Street to Peterborough train that actually went via Colchester, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Bury St Edmunds and Ely.

30907 would most definitely not have been valid on this train (if he was on it), as it is neither mapped nor direct.

I was indeed on one of those trains (there having been no others from Liverpool Street to Peterborough direct for many years), and the ticket wasn't queried.

Obviously I have misinterpreted the rule and I apologise to the OP.