Ticket technology on trains in the long term

[Philip]

In the medium to long term future, could we see a system of 'tap to open the doors' being introduced on trains and could it work well? To give a brief description, a passenger would only be able to open the doors to board the train if the ticket is valid to board at that particular station and likewise the passenger would only be able to open the doors to get off if the ticket is valid to do so there. The guard for example could control the actual locking and unlocking of the doors once it is safe to do so and allow passengers to tap to open.

I'm sure the technology will be there to implement something like this eventually and it would definitely sort any problems of loss of revenue or fraudulent travel. Could it work and could it happen some way down the line?

 

[Aictos]

On a service which sees one man and his dog yes it could work quite well but in reality, it wouldn’t work simply because you cause more delays as people queue to board the train one by one.

Existing ticket barriers already do this and it’s a proven technology that doesn’t impact negatively on people using the trains.

 

[Philip]

On a service which sees one man and his dog yes it could work quite well but in reality, it wouldn’t work simply because you cause more delays as people queue to board the train one by one.

Existing ticket barriers already do this and it’s a proven technology that doesn’t impact negatively on people using the trains.

The system itself could create a more orderly procedure as it would get rid of the mad scramble and people trying to squeeze on whilst others are still getting off, so the increase in dwell time may not be as big as it seems.

 

[Aictos]

The system itself could create a more orderly procedure as it would get rid of the mad scramble and people trying to squeeze on whilst others are still getting off, so the increase in dwell time may not be as big as it seems.

I still can’t see it being a feasible plan.

 

[Llanigraham]

The system itself could create a more orderly procedure as it would get rid of the mad scramble and people trying to squeeze on whilst others are still getting off, so the increase in dwell time may not be as big as it seems.

Really?
A 2 car unit with 4 doors with 30 people trying to board, and there won't be a delay?
And what about where there are no suitable ticket purchase provisions?
And what happens when someones ticket doesn't work?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The system itself could create a more orderly procedure as it would get rid of the mad scramble and people trying to squeeze on whilst others are still getting off, so the increase in dwell time may not be as big as it seems.

Unless having level access between train and platform is also mandated, it would mean passengers having one hand filled with a ticket and unavailable to hold on to step up/down.

 

[6Gman]

The system itself could create a more orderly procedure as it would get rid of the mad scramble and people trying to squeeze on whilst others are still getting off, so the increase in dwell time may not be as big as it seems.

But if that means door opening/ closing between each passenger dwell times would be absurd! And would children (e.g.) be expected to present their own tickets?

 

[alistairlees]

In the medium to long term future, could we see a system of 'tap to open the doors' being introduced on trains and could it work well? To give a brief description, a passenger would only be able to open the doors to board the train if the ticket is valid to board at that particular station and likewise the passenger would only be able to open the doors to get off if the ticket is valid to do so there. The guard for example could control the actual locking and unlocking of the doors once it is safe to do so and allow passengers to tap to open.

I'm sure the technology will be there to implement something like this eventually and it would definitely sort any problems of loss of revenue or fraudulent travel. Could it work and could it happen some way down the line?

It would cause massive loss of revenue as train dwell times increased dramatically, journey times increased dramatically, capacity reduced, and there was terrible PR which put people off travelling. It’s a truly impractical and terrible idea I’m afraid.

 

[duffield]

OK, on the face of it one of the most impractical ideas I've seen, even on Speculative Ideas - *but* there is a possible variation I can imagine working - eventually.
No, there's no real practical way you could use this system to open/close doors.

But let's suppose we are at a point in the future where all tickets are machine readable - from a short distance, say 1 metre, *without presenting them*, they are RFID+ tickets in a wallet or NFC+ mobile or future equivalent. And all trains have full CCTV coverage with plenty of computing power to back it up. (+ indicates slightly increased range)

It *is* just about conceivable that you could have a system where as each person boards their ticket is checked automatically, invalid tickets are noted and the CCTV links with this and if the ticket is invalid or unreadable they are tracked to their seat or standing position. The guard is then informed (e.g.) 'all tickets valid, no checks required' or 'this person (insert photo from CCTV) in seat A34 has an unreadable or invalid ticket'. So ticket checks are minimised and manual checks only required for a directed handful of people. On DOO trains staff at a destination station could be alerted by facial recognition systems on the station that a particular person needs a manual check.

Of course, if you registered your face and bank account you wouldn't even need to have any sort of e-ticket, your face would be your ticket and you would be charged the appropriate fare automatically. And if everyone had to do this, there would be no need for tickets as such or anything to read them. It could all be done via CCTV and facial recognition.

I know this may sound a bit fanciful and very expensive - but facial recognition and tracking is being used already for many purposes, and Amazon *already* has stores where you can just walk around, pick up whatever you like, walk out with it and be billed automatically. This is nearly the same thing. Facial recognition is also used at some airports for fast track security clearance.

I'm also pretty sure China is getting very close to this sort of setup already.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm *not* saying this is a *good* thing, in fact it could be very, very bad for freedom and privacy. I'm just saying this is the sort of thing that could technically be made to work without delaying boarding, and would potentially be very convenient if you ignore the privacy and freedom aspects.

Also note that I am an IT person (very recently retired) and I do read extensively about this subject, so I do have some sort of idea about what is possible.