Ticket redesign.

[Matt Taylor]

Found this on Twitter and thought it might be worth some discussion, at first glance it looks good:

http://www.roberthempsall.co.uk/uk-train-ticket-redesign/

 

[ralphchadkirk]

He hasn't included the routeing, class or child/adult status of the ticket on it...

 

[Lampshade]

Looks good on face value, but the systems and technology behind it would be terrifyingly complicated.

 

[asylumxl]

Don't think including a platform numbers too smart TBH, seeing as many major stations the numbers are prone to alteration.

 

[WestCoast]

Yes, there are some key details missing on that ticket...

The old ELGAR ticket stock could fit all reservation details on it, what they should have done is made all auto-barriers compatible with a barcode, like what Eurostar have done. So, you simply scan the barcode on the ticket at the barrier - like you can do at some Chiltern stations. Therefore, ELGAR could have been kept for tickets with reservations (issued at certain outlets) and cause no hassles at an auto-barrier. ELGAR was also easier for onboard staff to deal with.

 

[Eagle]

First thought: agh, no. I think this kind of completely misses the point.

A ticket does not exist to tell you where to go. A ticket exists purely as proof of purchase of a journey to the staff and the ticket barriers. By squeezing all the important stuff that lets it do that into tiny font and removing some of it it totally defeats the object.

Although I wouldn't be opposed to one coupon being an ordinary ticket and another with all the transport details on for the customer; after all it would save printing it off the website/writing it on your hand/saving it to your phone/(in my case) trying to remember it all.

Plus using Akzidenz makes it look much more sexy, although of course a real machine couldn't do that.

 

[yorkie]

Absolutely ludicrous, sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's my opinion.

How would it cope with the restriction codes, routeings and validity for a London to Inverness ticket?!

"A booked return between two stations" is shown as a Cheap Day Return, and yet despite being a "booked return" (Advance, presumably) is for an unreservable service, and it doesn't say which portion it is. Of course, as others have identified, loads of other information is missing too, including payment method, number of passengers (child/adult) and more.

As for the Off Peak Return, there's no expiry date on it. So presumably you have to look at the start date, and then the ticket type (which is tiny) and then calculate that the end date is 29 July 2011. I can't see any ticket inspector wanting to do that!

 

[causton]

As for the Off Peak Return, there's no expiry date on it. So presumably you have to look at the start date, and then the ticket type (which is tiny) and then calculate that the end date is 29 July 2011. I can't see any ticket inspector wanting to do that!

It's actually an off-peak day return, which is why I presume the date says "on 30 Jun 11" - if it was an off-peak return it would presumably say "between 30 Jun 11 and 29 Jul 11"

The ticket looks a lot clearer - although restriction details are one problem - and as mentioned some other info is missing. It's a start, though!

 

[Eagle]

To sum up:

In its purpose of telling you which trains to take it succeeds very well.

In its purpose of being a ticket it fails on so many levels.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Not to mention current ticket printers could print nowhere near the resolution required for that design.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think the designs are well-intentioned but amateurish; clearly designed by people who don't know the inner workings of the railway. Yorkie and Eagle have it spot-on for me - the ticket isn't an itinerary, a travel guide, whatever. It's evidence of your right to make a journey. Increasing passenger expectation of the humble ticket to provide more than that is a minefield.

Yorkie has highlighted the information missed out - which sometimes is the most important information to the customer! Tickets in this country are very flexible and can be used on any number of different routes. By all means a travel itinerary is fine - but not on the ticket itself.

I would however, welcome some minor change in design to our beloved tickets. I think it is not at all impractical to place the reservation details on the physical ticket. The numbers of people who unwittingly discard or lose their reservation coupon with Advance tickets, and then end up paying more, is very high indeed.

 

[Flamingo]

If we are looking at "blue sky" thinking and utilisation of current technology, how about encoding the ticket information into a 3d bar-code, and have readers installed at every station where passengers can scan the ticket and real-time journey information and restrictions will be displayed, with the option of a printout for a nominal fee, say 10p - (purely to discourage people from unnecessary waste of paper).

 

[island]

and have readers installed at every station

even BYA?

 

[WestCoast]

If we are looking at "blue sky" thinking and utilisation of current technology, how about encoding the ticket information into a 3d bar-code, and have readers installed at every station where passengers can scan the ticket and real-time journey information and restrictions will be displayed, with the option of a printout for a nominal fee, say 10p - (purely to discourage people from unnecessary waste of paper).

I'd settle for a decent e-ticket system! A straight copy of what DB in Germany would do. Virtually EVERY ticket can be printed (including rovers and special offers) and they all carry a barcode, which an inspector/guard scans and then swipes ID Card/Credit or Debit Card to confirm validity to that ticket holder.

 

[Lampshade]

even BYA?

It's got higher usage figures than the likes of Denton and Kirton Lindsey

 

[Flamingo]

I'd settle for a decent e-ticket system! A straight copy of what DB in Germany would do. Virtually EVERY ticket can be printed (including rovers and special offers) and they all carry a barcode, which an inspector/guard scans and then swipes ID Card/Credit or Debit Card to confirm validity to that ticket holder.

And then we would be getting posts on here about "I forgot the credit card and the nasty man charged me a new ticket, why can't we have something that doesn't need us to cary our CC. Also, what about walk-up fares, tickets bought by companies, parents/friends buying tickets for people, etc?

Don't forget the Ryanair option, if you don't print off your ticket you have to pay an extortionate amount for the ticket before boarding...

 

[WestCoast]

And then we would be getting posts on here about "I forgot the credit card and the nasty man charged me a new ticket, why can't we have something that doesn't need us to cary our CC. Also, what about walk-up fares, tickets bought by companies, parents/friends buying tickets for people, etc?.

Well, it works for DB! Walk-up fares are simply purchased in the normal way or you can opt for a printed ticket sent by post (for an small extra fee).

Works better over there because of ID cards (which most people have in their wallet), so someone else just enters the lead passenger's name on a booking. Credit/Debit cards are just another option.

Nevertheless, Virgin, XC and others already offer e-tickets - I'd just like them available everywhere. Northern, who operate my local stations, have a severe lack of TOD machines (i.e. non at all) so purchasing advance tickets can be a problem for me..

Don't forget the Ryanair option, if you don't print off your ticket you have to pay an extortionate amount for the ticket before boarding...

Yes, but they do warn you about a million times by email and when you book.

If Ryanair ran a TOC it would be interesting. You could be as surly as you want and never get reprimanded by your manager! Pay up or p*** off would be their attitude....

 

[Flamingo]

I'm not sure how the Ryanair model would fit in UK railways, as it stands, if we were to apply the Standard Open Single to every ticket irregularity, then it would annoy a lot of people, some because they have made a genuine mistake, most because they would be facing a real penalty for indulging in their favourite scams or lack of preparedness.

I have known only one TM who used to apply full open singles regardless of fear, favour, age, sex, race, infirmity or excuse. He was assaulted many times, he delayed many trains awaiting police attendance, I shudder to think how many volumes his personal file runs to with all the complaints and investigations that are in it - but he used to take over £250K a year (in pre-commission days). These days that would equate at over £1000 a month commission.

Maybe Mr O'Leary has a point. If I thought I would get the back-up from my managers, (and given the level of crap one attracts simply by excessing the more obvious chancers then they would attract a LOT of complaints and delays), I would be sorely tempted to try it myself, even if just for a month coming up to Christmas or the holidays.

Sorry, this is getting VERY off-thread

 

[WestCoast]

Maybe Mr O'Leary has a point. If I thought I would get the back-up from my managers, (and given the level of crap one attracts simply by excessing the more obvious chancers then they would attract a LOT of complaints and delays), I would be sorely tempted to try it myself, even if just for a month coming up to Christmas or the holidays.

Ryanair staff (and subcontracted staff) get a lot of crap aimed at them (I know someone who worked for them), because they have to enforce draconian policies. You don't have the option of discretion, you HAVE to charge a full penalty for any breaking of rules, otherwise there are consequences for staff. While the staff have to deal with crap, if anyone every touched a member of their staff, management would support them 100%.

 

[90019]

In its purpose of being a ticket it fails on so many levels.

Looking at it, I find it rather confusing, especially compared to the current tickets.

 

[Yew]

I would say in some ways its better, and in some worse.

Generally its better for the passanger, however how the routing system could work with multiple valid routes is an altogether different problem

However i forsee the small writing making ticket checks harder, especially if a member of staff has some vision problems.

Ideally, if i where making a whole new system, each journey would have a barcode, and that could be scanned by the upgraded avantix, and would provide assisntace for those, "i assure you its in the routing guide" moments you sometime see. Maybe scanners at stations could show the fastest routes for a ticket?

Of course, the cost of that would be prohibitive, however its nice to see people thinking of ways to make a more user friendly system for new and experienced passangers alike

 

[Greenback]

I agree wholeheartedly with Eagle and Yorkie. Big fail on this idea, for reasons already given.

Also, Ryanair should not be used as some sort of ideal that the railway should aim for! Even in jest!

 

[Flamingo]

Also, Ryanair should not be sued as some sort of ideal that the railway should aim for! Even in jest!

Why not? Practically every non-industry poster on here complains that rail fares are too high. Ryanair have succeeded in driving fares down all over Europe, as their role model Southwest Airlines did in the US, by eliminating ALL frills, and making their profit margins the people who wanted the frills.

Would that not be a way to go on the Railways? If you want to travel intercity cheaply, then the Ryanair model seems to be good - charge the people more who want the most, in terms of space, luggage and flexibility.

 

[Greenback]

Why not? Because trains are not airlines, even inter city trains. The business model is completely different.

 

[jon0844]

Ryanair is running out of things to cut, or indeed charge for, so they're now having to find some rather underhand methods - like charging for all methods of payment, except some obscure one that can change without notice, or introducing a charge for the toilet. I am sure they're busy thinking of new ideas as we speak.

Michael O'Leary is great with spin, so he's able to make you think the £1 toilet charge is a good thing.. after all, how many times do you not use it? So why are you paying for someone ELSE to go? They should pay more, especially if it means you get a cheaper ticket!

They also seem to love surprising people with large charges if their circumstances change, and of course checking in late if you couldn't do so in advance. At least on the railway you can often excess in advance, and you don't pay to take bags or check in.

Or at least, not yet!

 

[tom1649]

I'm not that keen on the redesign and I certainly don't agree with the removal of the BR double arrow!

 

[Flamingo]

I've opened a new Ryanair thread here, so as not to sidetrack this thread about ticket design

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47702

 

[thesmithclan]

With all the Internet booking a lot of customers with 'open' tickets think that they are restricted to the time they have booked and often buy tickets that they don't need if they travel on something else. We have no idea how many people are buying the wrong tickets as they don't visit us in the ticket office and use the TVM's instead.

I could see this working on 'advance though but defo leave platform numbers off.

The TOC I work for wouldn't pay for an ungrade for a redesigned ticket

 

[barrykas]

With all the Internet booking a lot of customers with 'open' tickets think that they are restricted to the time they have booked and often buy tickets that they don't need if they travel on something else.

It's not just the passengers who get confused, I've witnessed cases where gateline staff have refused to let people through on walk-up tickets because they're on the "wrong" train, as well as various routeing issues or trying to apply "our" Super Off-Peak restrictions to longer distance tickets.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[island]

Not to mention the old chestnut "this is a peak train, you can't use an off-peak ticket", seems to raise its head at EUS very frequently where many, but by no means all, off-peak tickets have evening peak bars.