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devon_metro

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I don't actually mind voyagers now. Had a 221+220 from ESD>NA And stupid me sits in the 220, kind train guard, nice big windows, seats weren't too bad, nice air-con

Althiough i had screaming kids in quiet coach and engine vibrations

The thing i like is the large windows.!
 
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metrocammel

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Liam said:
I don't actually mind voyagers now. Had a 221+220 from ESD>NA And stupid me sits in the 220, kind train guard, nice big windows, seats weren't too bad, nice air-con

Althiough i had screaming kids in quiet coach and engine vibrations

The thing i like is the large windows.!

Why are you stupid for sitting in the 220? Other than the 5-coaches of the 221, when running in multiple there is no difference.

The engine vibrations in Voyagers feel as though they are shaking the train apart.

The windows are bigish, but no bigger than a mk1's.
 

voyagerdude220

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WSXFan said:
lol. Purchasing tickets a lot is also a good way to learn. Exploring, aimlessly perhaps, at deals on t'internet is a handy way to see what is around. For instance, the cheapest fare between Penzance and Dundee is £19.15 with a Y-P. Now THAT is an absolute bargain! £33.65 for a First Class ticket. These are singles, mind, but still, it's a couple of pence, if that, per mile! And no, I wasn't aimlessly looking, I actually want to do that bash! 12 hours of mental Voyager thrash.

220001 on Friday on its run from Bristol to Newcastle, which I did from Birmingham to York, was quite hellfire. We arrived so early we had to sit outside York for around 10 minutes! Slack timings perhaps, but it makes a change from being late!

Who says Voyagers aren't fun...

I want to bash the ECML on a round trip Voyager style-

Bristol to Edinburgh/Glasgow via ECML

Glasgow to Bristol/Taunton via WCML

(Even though I'm on a 47 railtour in 2 weeks)

Edit: Virgin Value? I'm the one who did Pendolino Primo on Value First tickets Euston to Preston, before I moved, and was younger.

Its not bad leaving Manchester with SC overcrowded (despite the train only starting there), and FC with literally 3 people in when i was on it for 1 1/2 hours north..
 

Sprog

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Table 52 said:
Knowing about tickets is not scary. In fact, I think it's very sensible! Knowing how fast a hst can go or what class of trains run to stourbridge town is all well and good but it's not really going to come in useful. However, knowing the cheapest way to do Luton to Wellingborough is pretty handy!

And the system isn't that hard to learn. Once you learn the differences between day and month, single and return and peak and off peak, you're sorted. The rest is built on from there.

Of course, nothing teaches you better than a good spell actually issuing tickets!

bloody ticket veg!
 

Turbostar

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Came down from Scotland in January on 2 Voyagers, Aberdeen to Carlisle, Carlisle to Plymouth. Quiet enjoyed the journey actually, got to see quiet a bit of stuff as well, & places. Quiet enjoyed my hour in Carlisle, got to see stuff for the first time. Wouldn't mind going back to Carlisle sometime when I can get the money lol. :-P

Mart
 

ChrisCooper

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The scary thing about all these people who know loads about ticketing is that I've always thought the only people who really understood the system were those who invented it (although even that's a little bit hard to believe). Perhaps some people arn't telling us everything about themselves?
 

Table 52

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Virgin invented the advance purchase system. Before them you could buy advance purchase returns!
 

87015

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Table 52 said:
Virgin invented the advance purchase system. Before them you could buy advance purchase returns!

And didn't have to raid a bank to pay on the day...
 

Techniquest

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Indeed...Super Advance Returns and Apex fares were still incredibly expensive too, and not available on many routes. Since Virgin invented and re-invented the current system, I have been able to afford to go out on trips! A perfect example would be yesterday, whilst I was looking for cheap tickets to go to Community Railfest 2006. Hereford to Carlisle was available for a bargain £7.90 single with a Y-P. Next requirement was to check out Carlisle to Darlington (going this way to do the GNER HST over the Tyne Valley. This routing has since been changed, doing it the other way around now), again with a Y-P. How much was the single to do that? £10.30! £2.40 more than my single from Hereford to Carlisle! This is a Standard Day Single, yes, but it doesn't cover many miles at all compared to my bash up to Carlisle! I've decided that this is not the way I want to do things anyway, as there is no accommodation available in Carlisle! I've since decided to do things the original way I had planned for the northbound trip at least, and do the 461 to Hereford, 38/33 to Gloucester, Megabus to London, Megabus on the overnight run to Newcastle, FTPX to Darlington.

Basically what my point is is that we have a lot to thank Virgin for. Without their cheap ticketing system, we'd all be forced to pay large amounts for travel!
 

Nick W

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*mutters, groans*

One's new advance tickets are more expensive than equivelent return, and no YP discount is availible. Terrible!
 

Nick W

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The thing i don't understand is that MML and ONE have the same parent company, one's excellent and ONE's ****e.
 

Jim

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voyagerdude220 said:
When I was on 220 024 2 weeks ago, it had a 5-minute stop, because we arrived early in Banbury.
That is all the slack time, the 2054 from Southampton to Bounmouth arrives about 15 early in to SOU
 

voyagerdude220

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Jim said:
That is all the slack time, the 2054 from Southampton to Bounmouth arrives about 15 early in to SOU

Yes, you can especially notice it when the services are running a bit late.

Prime examples - The three Glasgow to Penzance services.

The slack time still doesn't stop siggies delaying Voyagers though, especially between Glasgow & Carlisle.
 

ChrisCooper

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Nick W said:
The thing i don't understand is that MML and ONE have the same parent company, one's excellent and ONE's ****e.

'one' though was the first of the new generation franchises where the lowest subsidy or highest premium wins, whilst most of the other parts of the franchise are dictated by the SRA/DfT. I'm sure the new East Midlands franchise will be pretty bad aswell, whoever gets it. MML isn't perfect though, trains are often very dirty (especially externally), performance is mostly down to incredible slack (Meridiens running to HST times and slightly slackened Turbostar times), the refurbishments of the HSTs were rarther cheap, the desision to use the 9 car Meridiens in plae of HSTs is very controversial (not least due to the fact that there arn't really facilities to deal with them), they have for many years, and still do, have a terrible record for wheel flats on trains (despite this causing massive increases in track forces), and customer service can be patchy (when they are good, the are very good, but when they are bad they can be awaful), and unless bought in advance, fares can be very high. Then again, no TOC is perfect, and MML are one of the better ones. I think 'one' is up there aswell though, and I'm sure could be much worse. I don't believe the myth that it would be so much better had First got the franchise (look at FCC and FGW, both of which get a lot of critisism).
 

Techniquest

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I can see myself regretting what I'm about to say, in that I'll never hear the end of it afterwards, but MML are far, far better than FGW. No contest. Even 'one' has a better reputation than FGW!

Dirty MML trains? FGW have them too, just we have them a lot more than MML (in my experience). Especially after running a fully wedged service to Cardiff on the day of a big match (honestly, the HST I saw arriving and leaving at Newport, as well as being late, was very busy. Full and standing in First Class even. Extra train services FGW? You said you were running them, but I didn't see any sign of this!)

Slack times? FGW has this too. Pump the timetables full of it, but does it make much difference? No. The trains are still late, considerably so too.

Poor customer service? FGW in a nutshell that is.

You know things are screwed when you have to get the train before the one you want to get to ensure your journey is completed on time. Again, FGW in a nutshell, especially at Newport. Arrive from Hereford on time at Maindee North, and you get everything pass you. HSTs to Cardiff, FGW Local to BTM/Pompey, and of course the train you want to get on, the one which is a booked connection off your train, the one which has already arrived late at Newport, leaves even later and goes before you get routed into the station. If it doesn't, you can put money on going into platform 1, where the train stops right down the other end of the station, being a monsterous run up to the footbridge, across it and in time to see the doors locked in front of you... At weekends, this means at least another hour until the next train. Assuming it runs, and if it does, if it runs to time. Which is almost always never the case. So if you're planning on getting, say, the 1649 to Newport to make the 1739 off Newport to Paddington (a packed run as it is from all stations to Newport, gets insane after that), you aim at getting the 1609 instead to Newport. The fact the Cardiff-bound Holyhead trains (xx09 every two hours) run late fairly often (75% of the time in my experience) is neither here or there though in this case. If it's on time, you curse then, as it means a 40+ minute wait in Newport. This isn't particularly fun anymore too, especially if you go there on the days when freight through Newport is thin on the ground. But you do get to see if the 1649 arrives on time. Also, if you're lucky, weekdays mean you can get the 1709 if the 1609 leaves Hereford on time and arrives on-time (a tight 7-8 minute connection as it is off platform 1 usually anyway) at Newport, but you never plan to get that.
 

yorkie

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MML have shockingly high amounts of slack, far in excess of FGW - they just don't compare at all.

And yep the wheelflats have been noticed. We let a 9-car DMU for Sheffield go by with an awful wheelflat carting fresh air plus about 10 passengers (1 in first class) and got the following (10 minutes later) Leeds HST. They're subsidised a hell of a lot of money to get those 10 people to Derby and Sheffield 10 minutes before the following train, it really is pointless.

Oh and our train had a diabolical wheel flat too.

And yes the fares on MML are extortionate if you do not book in advance. Although advance fares can be stunningly good value - among the best in the country!
 

Guinness

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I personally think MML are one of the best TOCs in the country.

Slack Times? Every train has some form of slack times. Although noticeable with MML is the recent changes to the Timetable which involves 222s 9 car replacing HSTs. No change in train times however despite the 222s been much quicker in acceleration. With these "huge" slack times MML can stay on track with performance.

I think Midland Mainline fares are reasonable.
 
T

Tom

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Jim said:
That is all the slack time, the 2054 from Southampton to Bounmouth arrives about 15 early in to SOU

It's booked to do that. Booked so that the 442 behind it (6 behind at Parkway) can have a 2 min stop and can overtake with it being 3 mins ahead. The Voyager generally goes first if the 442 is late though.
 

TheSlash

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Yorkie, rather than making your usual biased comments, why don't you write to MML and ask them how hard it is to get something onto the wheel lathe. Perhaps you'd rather them not run trains, than run trains with wheel flats?
 

Tom C

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Even 'one' has a better reputation than FGW!

I wouldn't go that far! One hardly have a good reputation, especially in London to Norwich with poor reliability, frequent delays and pretty poor passenger service although I am told it has improved just recently.

I do have to say that £5 from Norwich to Liverpool Street is amazing value and I found plenty of trains with these seats just recently when I had a rare day back in the booking office.

It would be interesting to know just how many seats are allocated to each advance purchase fare. Again just playing with RJIS I managed to find an awful lot of the cheapest or second cheapest fare on all the TOC's with the notable exception of GNER who used to be one of the easiest to get cheaper seats but now it is very, very difficult by what I saw.

Midland Mainline were by far the best even though the 1st class cheapest fare was often sold out the second was usually available and standard was very good apart from the busiest trains.
 

Guinness

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TheSlash said:
Yorkie, rather than making your usual biased comments, why don't you write to MML and ask them how hard it is to get something onto the wheel lathe. Perhaps you'd rather them not run trains, than run trains with wheel flats?

I think MML does have a back log of Lathing, as there have been known for HSTs and Meridians to come to Longsight to have the Wheels lathed up.
 

metrocammel

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Chaz said:
I think MML does have a back log of Lathing, as there have been known for HSTs and Meridians to come to Longsight to have the Wheels lathed up.

But at the end of the day, a wheel flat is a minor fault, unless it is very pronounced, it cannot cause any damage, and although it is annoying for the passengers at low speed, at high speed they are hardly noticeable. If it is a major flat, ie if a train has been working at speed with a handbrake on for several miles, that is when it needs attention quickly, but most flats are very trivial.
 

devon_metro

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I've had a flat from London Paddington to Newton Abbot! Right above the wheel was i ;)

Pretty damn annoying.
 
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