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Ticket office closure

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Tom B

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I travelled from London Paddington to Bristol and back a couple of months ago on a Sunday - wasn't checked at any time by a guard, and automated gates at Bristol were open on the journey there. I don't use this route regularly enough to know whether this is common or not.
 
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455driver

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Even if they stay in the back cab for the entire journey?

Go to the back cab and knock on the door!
Thats probably the first place I would look for them.

Or when he says he looked for the guard what he actually means is he sat down and waited for the guard to get to them, IE made no attempt to actually find the guard.
 
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jkdd77

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Go to the back cab and knock on the door!
Thats probably the first place I would look for them.

Or when he says he looked for the guard what he actually means is he sat down and waited for the guard to get to them, IE made no attempt to actually find the guard.

I reckon that an ordinary member of the public, with no specialist rail knowledge, would fear that knocking on the cab door is "not allowed" and/or distracting a guard from a safety-critical duty.

When I first started travelling by rail regularly, I once waited for two hours, on a weekend train, for a FGW staff member to come through the first class carriage to check my standard class ticket and take my flat £10 weekend first upgrade (as it was then). I considered knocking on the cab door, but decided against it for the reason stated above; in the event, I was eventually able to pay the £10 on board the train.

Subsequently, I once travelled directly from Patchway to Reading (via Bristol Temple Meads) on a pre-purchased first class advance ticket, which I had previously collected from the nearby Bristol Parkway station, and didn't have my (valid) ticket checked at all during the c. 2 hour journey.

It raises the related question of whether, and to what extent, a passenger, who has boarded at a station with no purchase facilities, is obliged to actively seek out a guard on board the train, even to the point of running up and down a (crowded?) eight-carriage HST. This, and the 'requirement to delay's one's journey to purchase at an interchange station' when delayed' are both matters I would like to see clarified, either as part of a PF review, or otherwise.

At present, the uncertainty surrounding the interpretation of the law means that TOCs can, in practice, extract large sums of money from passengers in this position by threatening them with prosecution, in the knowledge that the passenger will likely not want to take the risk of conviction.
 
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Flamingo

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Don't forget, an 8 car HST will by and large be stopping mainly at stations with ticket facilities. I'll easily sell a few dozen tickets a week after leaving London Paddington! What's the excuse there? The only one I ever hear is "I was running for the train".
 

Tom B

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Don't forget, an 8 car HST will by and large be stopping mainly at stations with ticket facilities. I'll easily sell a few dozen tickets a week after leaving London Paddington! What's the excuse there? The only one I ever hear is "I was running for the train".

Whilst a passenger who is late due to their own fault cannot use this as an excuse, what if they had been in a queue for 15 minutes and there's only one assistant serving tickets? Ought they to miss the train?

The other one I thought of was if an LUL connection was delayed and they wanted to purchase a ticket at Paddington - but I realise that if they didn't hold a ticket from the start it couldn't be considered a "connection".
 

Flamingo

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Whilst a passenger who is late due to their own fault cannot use this as an excuse, what if they had been in a queue for 15 minutes and there's only one assistant serving tickets? Ought they to miss the train?

The other one I thought of was if an LUL connection was delayed and they wanted to purchase a ticket at Paddington - but I realise that if they didn't hold a ticket from the start it couldn't be considered a "connection".

There are trains to a Reading every few minutes. Pad has loads of TVM's.

I would say yes, they are expected to buy a ticket first. So does the law.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Or when he says he looked for the guard what he actually means is he sat down and waited for the guard to get to them, IE made no attempt to actually find the guard.

This comment is most unhelpful and is exactly why I posted my original question.

It is obvious that some people in the rail industry automatically criminalize anybody who steps on a train without a ticket.

If I ask about walking through the train seeking the guard, it does not mean that I sit down and wait for the guard to come to me.
 

Flamingo

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This comment is most unhelpful and is exactly why I posted my original question.

It is obvious that some people in the rail industry automatically criminalize anybody who steps on a train without a ticket.

If I ask about walking through the train seeking the guard, it does not mean that I sit down and wait for the guard to come to me.

Most people sit down waiting for the guard.

The odd ones who come to find me sometimes get a surprise, be it a complementary coffee, or a 1st class seat.
 

swt_passenger

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I reckon that an ordinary member of the public, with no specialist rail knowledge, would fear that knocking on the cab door is "not allowed" and/or distracting a guard from a safety-critical duty.

The highlighted bits are contradictory surely? With no prior knowledge, joe public wouldn't be likely to understand the latter concept at all...
 

PermitToTravel

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I'm sure that jkdd77 meant for those words to be taken at their face value as they would be by an ordinary member of the public, rather than one conversant with the Safety Critical Working Regulations...
 

Clip

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If a RPI has decided he doesn't like your story how is a uncertified mobile phone picture of a shut door or broken Ticket machine or a PTT machine going to convince him?

Do we really need to wander around like David Bailey, it's ridiculous. People just want to get from A to B not start a portfolio of defence material on a day trip

No one was saying you have to be so extreme, I was merely pointing out some things that the OP could do to assist in them when they try to buy a ticket either on train or at a station after their journey.
 

Emyr

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Given we're meant to keep an eye on our belongings at all times, should I be clattering my bike along the armrests all the way to the back cab next time?
 

Fare-Cop

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Another interpretation is that if your interchange station has ticket issuing facilities to sell you the required ticket, you must use it, regardless of whether you miss your onward connection or not, as it is the "first available opportunity".

I do not necessarily agree with it but this has never been tested in court, so I thought youu need to know the full picture of arguments from both sides.


This has actually been tested at Magistrates Court resulting in a guilty plea & conviction following lengthy legal debate and advice, but that case at the lower Court cannot be relied upon as a precedent. It involved a daily commuter who did not purchase a weekly or season ticket.

The important thing to remember is that in that particular case there was no ticketing facility at either joining or destination stations and the only facilities existed on either train or at the interchange.
 
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