Altnabreac
Established Member
So I had a bit of an RJ like experience this week where the Guard told me my ticket wasn't valid as it "Cost less than everyone else paid for their ones". I explained that it was valid on this particular journey due to the routing guide but had particular restrictions that made it less flexible / useful than the more expensive ticket for most people but that for me it was fine and cost less money while also providing additional validity I found useful (though most travellers wouldn't) so I preferred it.
Ultimately she allowed me onward travel but advised she would be reporting the journey to TOC management "for action to be taken" whether against me for not having a valid ticket (though no details taken!) or against the routing for being valid and cheap was not specified.
It is a ticket I find very useful occasionally and have had as a season before (I am now primarily a car commuter but still frequently use trains for leisure travel) and wouldn't like it to be blocked. I can't see any easy way for the TOC to block it though and wondered what action they might take? I'll try and describe the situation without revealing the station names.
There are 2 major towns with 2 routes between them. Lets call the towns A + B and the routes 1 and 2. On route 1 there is a town called C. Near route 2 (but not on it) there is a town called D. A-D are all routing points.
My ticket was an X-Y day return. X is on route 2, Y is on a branch from route 1 but not directly on it. X has routing points of A+D. Y has routing points of B+C.
The shortest (and quickest) route is X-A-C-Y. This is obviously valid and would also pass the fares check rule if it were required to as it is more expensive than a C-X and an A-Y ticket. An alternative route is X-B-Y. This passes the fares check rule as the fare is more than B-Y, B-X D-Y and D-X. Both routes are shown as permitted by journey planners and my ticket was valid for break of journey.
I was using the ticket to travel X-A-C-B stopping short and starting early by not going to Y. My ticket was cheaper than an A-B return which is what upset the guard, however it is not necessary to be cheaper than all fares along the route, only the relevant routing points. Also anyone wanting return travel on the full route of A-B-A only couldn't (honestly) use my ticket so its less flexible and you can only use my ticket on the trains which stop at certain intermediate stations on route 1 so it is less flexible.
If anyone hasn't given up on this convoluted post yet, is there a way the TOC can withdraw validity? I can't see how a negative easement or map change could really prevent my travel? Its more a quirk of the rail geography than an egregious fare anomaly.
Not sure if this belongs in Disputes or Fares Advice. Mods feel free to move.
Ultimately she allowed me onward travel but advised she would be reporting the journey to TOC management "for action to be taken" whether against me for not having a valid ticket (though no details taken!) or against the routing for being valid and cheap was not specified.
It is a ticket I find very useful occasionally and have had as a season before (I am now primarily a car commuter but still frequently use trains for leisure travel) and wouldn't like it to be blocked. I can't see any easy way for the TOC to block it though and wondered what action they might take? I'll try and describe the situation without revealing the station names.
There are 2 major towns with 2 routes between them. Lets call the towns A + B and the routes 1 and 2. On route 1 there is a town called C. Near route 2 (but not on it) there is a town called D. A-D are all routing points.
My ticket was an X-Y day return. X is on route 2, Y is on a branch from route 1 but not directly on it. X has routing points of A+D. Y has routing points of B+C.
The shortest (and quickest) route is X-A-C-Y. This is obviously valid and would also pass the fares check rule if it were required to as it is more expensive than a C-X and an A-Y ticket. An alternative route is X-B-Y. This passes the fares check rule as the fare is more than B-Y, B-X D-Y and D-X. Both routes are shown as permitted by journey planners and my ticket was valid for break of journey.
I was using the ticket to travel X-A-C-B stopping short and starting early by not going to Y. My ticket was cheaper than an A-B return which is what upset the guard, however it is not necessary to be cheaper than all fares along the route, only the relevant routing points. Also anyone wanting return travel on the full route of A-B-A only couldn't (honestly) use my ticket so its less flexible and you can only use my ticket on the trains which stop at certain intermediate stations on route 1 so it is less flexible.
If anyone hasn't given up on this convoluted post yet, is there a way the TOC can withdraw validity? I can't see how a negative easement or map change could really prevent my travel? Its more a quirk of the rail geography than an egregious fare anomaly.
Not sure if this belongs in Disputes or Fares Advice. Mods feel free to move.
its a bit frustrating to see everything given letters rather than names...
