Ticket irregularity report

[Mimi]

Hello,
Me aged 18 and two other friends aged 17 and 18 took a transpennine expresss train from Manchester Piccadilly station to Sheffield on the 25/08/2023.

My friend has a family and friends railcard I’m not really sure on how it works but there are two pictures on the railcard her mums and hers. She purchased the tickets for our journey and bought 1 adult 2 children tickets.

During this trip the inspector checked the railcard by scanning it on my friends phone after scanning to check the tickets. The began to ask who were the children and who was the adult. My memory is hazy on exactly how it escalated but he saw my friends drivers license and then said he was going to file a report( this friend said she was using a child ticket) again I’m not really sure on how the railcards work but she told the instructor she bought a child ticket because her mum is the adult on the railcard. The inspector then asked me my age and I lied saying I was 16 he then said I’d have to pay for an adult ticket anyway and continued filing the report. We didn’t resist to give details. He only asked for my friends details I think this is because she bought the tickets and it was her railcard but I’m super panicked about this. I don’t want us to end up going to court or anything like that. I wish the inspector had just given us a penalty on the spot or offered to let us buy new tickets. The railcard isn’t a fake one and it could’ve honestly passed as a silly mistake but I guess we weren’t lucky.

Please share any thoughts and advice we haven’t received a letter back yet.

 

[fandroid]

Your friend was a valid cardholder, as she is over 16 and named on the card, but to get the discount on her ticket she had to be travelling with at least one child under 16. She bought child tickets for herself and one friend, but that didn't make the Railcard discount valid for the holder as neither were under 16. Then the two travelling on child tickets were wrong as well because they were too old to be entitled to them.

Only "adults" (meaning over 16s in this case) should actually be named on the card, so your friend was confused when she thought "she was the child". She was one of the adults and that would have got the inspector thinking something was very wrong.

So, overall it was a bit of a mess. It currently looks as if your cardholder friend is the one in trouble as she was the one whose details were taken.

Others will be on soon to explain what might happen. It might be a good idea for your cardholder friend to come on here for help too.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The issue here is that there has to be a child travelling in the group (ie. someone under 16) and there wasn't. There are some circumstances where a 16 year old can count as a child when using this railcaard but as the 'child' wasn't 16 it's not relevent to this case.

As for what will happen next Transpennine Express will write to your friend saying that they have received a report of a ticket irregularity and ask for their version of events before deciding how to proceed. The letter will typically take a few weeks to arrive and it is important that you reply to the letter in a timely manner. I suggest writeing a short, concise reply covering the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they wish to. Settlement costs tend to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Mimi]

Welcome to the forum!

The issue here is that there has to be a child travelling in the group (ie. someone under 16) and there wasn't. There are some circumstances where a 16 year old can count as a child when using this railcaard but as the 'child' wasn't 16 it's not relevent to this case.

As for what will happen next Transpennine Express will write to your friend saying that they have received a report of a ticket irregularity and ask for their version of events before deciding how to proceed. The letter will typically take a few weeks to arrive and it is important that you reply to the letter in a timely manner. I suggest writeing a short, concise reply covering the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they wish to. Settlement costs tend to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Would you recommend coming clean that we lied about our ages and that we were confused in how the railcard wasn’t valid for our journey? Also for me and my friend to buy appropriate railcards like the 16-25 ones so that we can avoid this issue in future? I never buy children tickets cause I’m so scared of being caught it’s so frustrating that the one time I agree to it it’s escalated so quickly I’m not sure what to do.

 

[scrapy]

This case is unusual as there are 3 people the company will write to. The 'adults' and the 'child' will all be written to as nobody had a valid ticket. (The adults discount wasn't valid without a child travelling) It's important that you are all honest about what's happened and are consistent and don't turn it into a blaming exercise. (It will presumably one person's idea to have used the Railcard). Follow the advice in the above post by Hadders.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2023 ==

Would you recommend coming clean that we lied about our ages and that we were confused in how the railcard wasn’t valid for our journey? Also for me and my friend to buy appropriate railcards like the 16-25 ones so that we can avoid this issue in future? I never buy children tickets cause I’m so scared of being caught it’s so frustrating that the one time I agree to it it’s escalated so quickly I’m not sure what to do.

They will almost certainly ask your date of births on any correspondence you receive and deduce your age from this. You are not legally required to give them but it will look odd if you don't fill them in. Whatever you do don't give false details. If you don't fill them in it could look like you are not cooperating and they then take the case to court, in which case your date of birth would come out anyway but it would probably be too late to get a settlement. Best bet is to wait for their letter anyway and then ask further for advice. It can take a few months for them to write to you, so write down what happened so you do not forget.

 

[Mimi]

Only one persons details were collected though? Okay we’ll come clean about the lying about our ages on the letter once it comes to avoid further confusion or problems. The details of my friend that were collected are all accurate even though she said she was a child before ( she’s 17) I claimed I was 16 out of panic thinking he’d leave us alone but since you have to be 15 or under for a child ticket it didn’t really help.

This case is unusual as there are 3 people the company will write to. The 'adults' and the 'child' will all be written to as nobody had a valid ticket. (The adults discount wasn't valid without a child travelling) It's important that you are all honest about what's happened and are consistent and don't turn it into a blaming exercise. (It will presumably one person's idea to have used the Railcard). Follow the advice in the above post by Hadders.

 

[Hadders]

Would you recommend coming clean that we lied about our ages and that we were confused in how the railcard wasn’t valid for our journey?

Honesty is always the best policy, but you're not required to incriminate yourself either. I'd wait and see exactly what the letter says. If you post up a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) we can suggest how to reply.

Also for me and my friend to buy appropriate railcards like the 16-25 ones so that we can avoid this issue in future?

A railcard is a good idea if you travel regularly by train. They cost £30 and you get a 34% discount on most fares. One thing to watch out for is that a minimum discounted fare of £12 applies on weekdays before 10am (except in July and August) so be careful not to buy a ticket costing less than £12 for a train after 10am and use it before 10am (even if it's an Anytime ticket).

There is also a 16-17 Railcard that gives a 50% discount but this expires on your 18th birthday. Not worth it for you but might be worth it for your 17 year old friend.

I never buy children tickets cause I’m so scared of being caught it’s so frustrating that the one time I agree to it it’s escalated so quickly I’m not sure what to do.

We've all done silly things before, so try not to worry too much. You'll be able to sort it out, and it'll cost you a bit to do so, but it'll be a bit of hassle as well. Is the address you gave a permanent one or a term time address because it's important that you're able to get hold of the letter quickly when it arrives.

 

[Mimi]

Honesty is always the best policy, but you're not required to incriminate yourself either. I'd wait and see exactly what the letter says. If you post up a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) we can suggest how to reply.


A railcard is a good idea if you travel regularly by train. They cost £30 and you get a 34% discount on most fares. One thing to watch out for is that a minimum discounted fare of £12 applies on weekdays before 10am (except in July and August) so be careful not to buy a ticket costing less than £12 for a train after 10am and use it before 10am (even if it's an Anytime ticket).

There is also a 16-17 Railcard that gives a 50% discount but this expires on your 18th birthday. Not worth it for you but might be worth it for your 17 year old friend.


We've all done silly things before, so try not to worry too much. You'll be able to sort it out, and it'll cost you a bit to do so, but it'll be a bit of hassle as well. Is the address you gave a permanent one or a term time address because it's important that you're able to get hold of the letter quickly when it arrives.

Okay thank you so much. Yes it’s a permanent address. Once the letter comes I’ll post it on here with details blurred out as well as a draft for further help. Thanks to everyone for not being patronising i know we were silly I just hope they settle out of court.

 

[Hadders]

Okay thank you so much. Yes it’s a permanent address. Once the letter comes I’ll post it on here with details blurred out as well as a draft for further help. Thanks to everyone for not being patronising i know we were silly I just hope they settle out of court.

You'll get good advice here so don't be afraid to ask.

One question having re-read your opening post. Did all three of you give your names and addresses, or was it just your friend?

 

[Mimi]

You'll get good advice here so don't be afraid to ask.

One question having re-read your opening post. Did all three of you give your names and addresses, or was it just your friend?

No it was just my friend okay thank you so much

 

[Hadders]

No it was just my friend okay thank you so much

So the letter will go to your friend. If you didn't give any details then I don't see how Transpennine can get in touch with you.

 

[Mimi]

So the letter will go to your friend. If you didn't give any details then I don't see how Transpennine can get in touch with you.

Okay she said she’d let me know when the letter comes, do you think the only took her details because it’s her railway card? And would she be at fault for all three tickets since only her details were collected? This makes me feel worse to be honest.

 

[Hadders]

Okay she said she’d let me know when the letter comes, do you think the only took her details because it’s her railway card? And would she be at fault for all three tickets since only her details were collected? This makes me feel worse to be honest.

Anything's possible. If your details weren't taken then it's going to be difficult for them to persue you. If your friends details were taken then they will get a letter, the critical thing will be exactly what the letter says.

Your friend absolutely should not ignore the letter thinking it will go away, because it won't. Railway ticketing matters aren't like a parking ticket - they are criminal law. That said the vast majority of cases can be sorted without court action but only if you co-operate with them. I think the best thing you can do at the moment is make sure your friend understands this.

 

[Mimi]

Anything's possible. If your details weren't taken then it's going to be difficult for them to persue you. If your friends details were taken then they will get a letter, the critical thing will be exactly what the letter says.

Your friend absolutely should not ignore the letter thinking it will go away, because it won't. Railway ticketing matters aren't like a parking ticket - they are criminal law. That said the vast majority of cases can be sorted without court action but only if you co-operate with them. I think the best thing you can do at the moment is make sure your friend understands this.

At first she thought it wasn’t a big deal but as the paranoid one I couldn’t sleep without trying to understand what was happening I checked transpennine express terms to try understand what a ticket irregularity report was and then that’s when I saw the things about court and panicked.

When the report was being filed by the inspector we asked him what was happening as we didn’t understand what was going on he didn’t even bother explaining what was wrong so we’d just assumed we’d get a fine but the orange slip he gave us said they will contact us in writing so we didn’t understand the gravity of the situation. I only luckily stumbled on this website whilst trying to see if anyone had gone through anything similar. I’ve made sure my friends know how serious it is as they didn’t before now that we’re more aware we’ll know how to face the letter more appropriately. I’m so happy a website like this exists and that ppl are active it’s helped ease my anxiety about it.

 

[fandroid]

I don't know if the Railcard was taken off your friend (legally it remains the property of the railways). If she still has it then she needs to be fully aware that she is an Adult as far as the card is concerned and she can only use it if she is accompanied by at least one child under 16. (Same goes for her mum). Children under 5 count, but she would have to buy a child ticket for that child. Normally, children under 5 go free, but that child ticket is needed so that the adult can get the Railcard discount.

 

[30907]

Okay she said she’d let me know when the letter comes, do you think the only took her details because it’s her railway card? And would she be at fault for all three tickets since only her details were collected? This makes me feel worse to be honest.

She will be at fault because she bought the tickets, and none of them were valid.

You don't normally get a Penalty Fare ("fine") for misusing a Railcard discount; train companies see this as rather more serious - but if your friend co-operates when the letter comes she will probably be offered an out-of-court settlement which will be the full fares x3 plus maybe £100 for administrative costs. I imagine you and your other friend will want to help her out.

She or you should come back to us when the letter arrives.

BTW I doubt very much they will make a specific issue of you lying about your ages.

 

[MotCO]

I can see that the OP seems to be full aware of the seriousness of the situation, I'm just not sure the friend is. Please ensure that the friend opens and reads the letter from the train company when it arrives, and does not put it aside for another day. It is important that your friend (and you, since you want to share the 'pain') engage with the railway company and respond in a timely manner. You will get a lot of support and help on this forum, so don't be afraid to ask.

I don't know if you have told your parents about this episode. It may be somewhat daunting to own up to your parents, and you may get a lot of grief at first, but they will, in time, be supportive, so please tell them. If there is a financial settlement to be paid, they may be able to help.

 

[Mimi]

I can see that the OP seems to be full aware of the seriousness of the situation, I'm just not sure the friend is. Please ensure that the friend opens and reads the letter from the train company when it arrives, and does not put it aside for another day. It is important that your friend (and you, since you want to share the 'pain') engage with the railway company and respond in a timely manner. You will get a lot of support and help on this forum, so don't be afraid to ask.

I don't know if you have told your parents about this episode. It may be somewhat daunting to own up to your parents, and you may get a lot of grief at first, but they will, in time, be supportive, so please tell them. If there is a financial settlement to be paid, they may be able to help.

Hello thanks for the push to let my parents know I mustered up the courage and told them today and it’s really helped eased my anxiety rather than keeping it all to myself and worrying behind closed doors. Thank you again!

 

[fandroid]

Hello thanks for the push to let my parents know I mustered up the courage and told them today and it’s really helped eased my anxiety rather than keeping it all to myself and worrying behind closed doors. Thank you again!

Great