Ticket inspections

[brick60000]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but it's something that I've been thinking about. With ticket checks on board seemingly so random and lacking in consistency at times, who is it that determines when a check should take place?

Does the guard decide and it is solely down to them, being able to remain in the end cab if they wish, or is there a policy set by the TOC saying they must go out so many times, at certain times, or similar?

Something I've always wondered so I'd be grateful for any pointers!

Brick60000

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[tsr]

If it's done by a guard/conductor etc., rather than revenue teams (whose job is solely to deal with tickets or lack of such), then yes, it's down to them if tickets are checked.

Nobody in their right mind would mandate ticket checks at any specific point. It's basically impossible to make up a blanket rule which dictates when it's appropriate. It is almost the least important role a guard ever has, way below the safety of the train and its passengers, and some way below customer information and assistance. That said, sometimes ticket checking allows a layer of perception about what assistance customers may need, so it can be useful on certain trains (eg. checking certain coaches on trains which divide en-route), if you have a number of people who appear confused about journeys (eg. on airport trains), and other examples.

There may well be guidance in place about how visible a guard has to be, which is usually rather more stringent - even so, this is still not something which some take seriously enough, given what it can also mean when it comes to securing the role by means of promoting its value to passengers. On the other hand, some crew are very good indeed, and some rules are adhered to very well.

Some TOCs will specify that the ideal course of action may be to position yourself so you can be seen by every passenger during the course of their journey, therefore effectively maintaining a presence which is easily seen by everyone. (Obviously overcrowding or specific customer service issues, as well as dispatch positions, can sometimes hinder this.)

Others may specify that if no other duties are underway, they expect patrols of the train and security checks to be done at a certain frequency.

It does depend on TOC, but the general rule is that being a guard is a role where a lot of flexibility is required to fit everything in and ensure the safe running of the train, and sometimes revenue activity must be squeezed out entirely.

Despite all of this, it is by no means unheard of for management to flag up poor performance in terms of ticket sales, or (worse) what has been seen through covert customer service monitoring, such as when somebody never walks through trains. Sadly there is some variation throughout the country when it comes to how seriously this "flagging up" is done, and how seriously it is taken by employees.

 

[sheff1]

Nobody in their right mind would mandate ticket checks at any specific point. It's basically impossible to make up a blanket rule which dictates when it's appropriate.

I am sure former colleagues who drafted the document which described exactly where ticket checks were to be made on each individual Inter City train on the WMCL would be pleased to know they were not in their right mind whilst successfully completing a basically impossible task.

 

[tsr]

I am sure former colleagues who drafted the document which described exactly where ticket checks were to be made on each individual Inter City train on the WMCL would be pleased to know they were not in their right mind whilst successfully completing a basically impossible task.

Having checked many a ticket on the WCML in a former life, I can assure you it is wholly inappropriate to make a guard do them at a given point, though suggestions based on intelligence would not offend.

At no point did I suggest it would be inappropriate for revenue teams to do targeted and timed inspections. Indeed, it's quite a good idea, and many of my colleagues who used to be dedicated ticket inspectors, revenue inspectors etc. now look back at such efficiency with considerable nostalgia.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but it's something that I've been thinking about. With ticket checks on board seemingly so random and lacking in consistency at times, who is it that determines when a check should take place?

Does the guard decide and it is solely down to them, being able to remain in the end cab if they wish, or is there a policy set by the TOC saying they must go out so many times, at certain times, or similar?

Something I've always wondered so I'd be grateful for any pointers!

Brick60000

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

It varies massively by TOC. I know South West Trains management are much stricter when it comes to Commercial Guards (CG) checking tickets. In fact I'm pretty sure that their Revenue Protection Inspectors only go on trains where there is a non-commercial Guard and so all the trains with CG, the CG will be expected to check tickets and management are strict about this.

I don't know much about GWR but from personal observation, it is a very rare sight for me to see their Train Managers (TM) check ticket so I am lead to believe that management are not strict about it. In fact whenever there are people checking tickets even on the HSTs or Class 180s, it nearly always is the Tickets Examiners rather than the TM which I find odd if I have to be honest.

 

[Kite159]

It varies massively by TOC. I know South West Trains management are much stricter when it comes to Commercial Guards (CG) checking tickets. In fact I'm pretty sure that their Revenue Protection Inspectors only go on trains where there is a non-commercial Guard and so all the trains with CG, the CG will be expected to check tickets and management are strict about this.

I don't know much about GWR but from personal observation, it is a very rare sight for me to see their Train Managers (TM) check ticket so I am lead to believe that management are not strict about it. In fact whenever there are people checking tickets even on the HSTs or Class 180s, it nearly always is the Tickets Examiners rather than the TM which I find odd if I have to be honest.

SWT RPIs board trains with commercial guards, I've had a few checks on the little diesels.

Probably more to do with issuing penalty fares to the "pay if challenged as travelling one/two stops between unbarriered stations" brigade

 

[PudseyBearHST]

SWT RPIs board trains with commercial guards, I've had a few checks on the little diesels.

Probably more to do with issuing penalty fares to the "pay if challenged as travelling one/two stops between unbarriered stations" brigade

Ah ok. Thanks for correcting me

 

[Sprinter153]

I don't know much about GWR but from personal observation, it is a very rare sight for me to see their Train Managers (TM) check ticket so I am lead to believe that management are not strict about it. In fact whenever there are people checking tickets even on the HSTs or Class 180s, it nearly always is the Tickets Examiners rather than the TM which I find odd if I have to be honest.

Revenue has never been closely monitored. Certainly my managers care more about in train presence, passenger count input, mystery shopper reports, assessment scores and Rule Book compliance.

I think to a point that's good; if I can check tickets, I will, but on an HST on a high risk route (Cotswold line, B&H stopper) with lots of SDO and self-dispatch the last thing I want is to get wound up over tickets. I always carry my STAR machine for use if required but it's far more serious having a door open in traffic than not checking tickets between Shipton and Kingham!

You'll find as a result that West and LTV DMU guards will be more likely to check tickets.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Revenue has never been closely monitored. Certainly my managers care more about in train presence, passenger count input, mystery shopper reports, assessment scores and Rule Book compliance.

I think to a point that's good; if I can check tickets, I will, but on an HST on a high risk route (Cotswold line, B&H stopper) with lots of SDO and self-dispatch the last thing I want is to get wound up over tickets. I always carry my STAR machine for use if required but it's far more serious having a door open in traffic than not checking tickets between Shipton and Kingham!

You'll find as a result that West and LTV DMU guards will be more likely to check tickets.

Thanks for that insight . I guess with the HSTs as well is that you always have to despatch from/towards the rear of the train whereas with the SWT stock and combined with SWT procedure, you can despatch from any part of the train which of course means it is easier to check tickets or walk through the train without having to go all the way back for despatch at each station.