Ticket Fraud

[qamill4]

I had an Advance Single booked for today for a 5pm train from Kettering to London St Pancras.

I needed to travel earlier and took the 3pm train instead, as I was able to get through the barriers which were open.

I know this is stupid, but I used a PDF editor to alter my e-ticket from ‘Advance Single’ to ‘Super Off-Peak Single’.

When I got to the barrier at St Pancras, the EMR agent scanned the ticket and immediately detected it was fraudulent.

I offered to pay for a full return ticket from St Pancras to Kettering, which I did.

I was not issued a penalty fare.

Could anything further come from this?

I’m particularly concerned because I used a third party booking system (Egencia) to buy the original advance single and I’m worried that EMR will report this to them.


Thank you

 

[railwayman19]

Did they ask for your details or tell you could be prosecuted if not you shouldn't have to worry about it much.

 

[AlterEgo]

I had an Advance Single booked for today for a 5pm train from Kettering to London St Pancras.

I needed to travel earlier and took the 3pm train instead, as I was able to get through the barriers which were open.

I know this is stupid, but I used a PDF editor to alter my e-ticket from ‘Advance Single’ to ‘Super Off-Peak Single’.

When I got to the barrier at St Pancras, the EMR agent scanned the ticket and immediately detected it was fraudulent.

I offered to pay for a full return ticket from St Pancras to Kettering, which I did.

I was not issued a penalty fare.

Could anything further come from this?

I’m particularly concerned because I used a third party booking system (Egencia) to buy the original advance single and I’m worried that EMR will report this to them.


Thank you

EMR may well have captured your details to contact you later, but as you then purchased the correct fare, it may be that nothing more comes of this.

Altering a ticket you've booked is fraud - pure and simple. They may report the matter to the ticket retailer but that is also unlikely. I assume this is your employer's booking portal? If so, you've been daft - but you may live to fight another day!

 

[qamill4]

Did they ask for your details or tell you could be prosecuted if not you shouldn't have to worry it much.

No details were taken from me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2024 ==

EMR may well have captured your details to contact you later, but as you then purchased the correct fare, it may be that nothing more comes of this.

Altering a ticket you've booked is fraud - pure and simple. They may report the matter to the ticket retailer but that is also unlikely. I assume this is your employer's booking portal? If so, you've been daft - but you may live to fight another day!

Yes it was my employers booking portal which was incredibly stupid, but I am just worried about any potential further action. I hope not as I did pay the correct fare as soon as discovered.

 

[furlong]

Provided that the person concerned understood what you had done, I would suggest that payment of the fare was the agreed resolution of the matter.

To prosecute successfully, they'd need a high standard of evidence - not merely a scan of the displayed code - and would have sought to confirm and record formally your name and address on the spot. If they were very serious, they could have called the police to attend and retained your device - not just a photograph of it - sealing it into an evidence bag. They would not have taken payment as that can be misconstrued as an out-of-court settlement which may impede prosecution. At the end of the court process your device might be destroyed instead of being returned to you.

To be quite honest, I don't understand why the train companies don't follow this process in cases like yours to generate some publicity to act as a deterrent. If people started to realise their phones could be confiscated when they present fake tickets on them they might think twice before doing it.

 

[qamill4]

Provided that the person concerned understood what you had done, I would suggest that payment of the fare was the agreed resolution of the matter.

To prosecute successfully, they'd need a high standard of evidence - a photo of what you showed them on your device, for example, not merely a scan of the displayed code - and would have sought to confirm and record formally your name and address on the spot. They would not have taken payment as that can be misconstrued as an out-of-court settlement which may impede prosecution.

Thank you.

So, the guy took a photo of my fraudulent ticket and then announced to me that it was a fake ticket and switched his body cam on.

At which point he gave me the option of buying a full price return fare, which I did without hesitation.

I’m just hoping that’s case closed and I’m never going to be so stupid again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2024 ==

Thank you.

So, the guy took a photo of my fraudulent ticket and then announced to me that it was a fake ticket and switched his body cam on.

At which point he gave me the option of buying a full price return fare, which I did without hesitation.

I’m just hoping that’s case closed and I’m never going to be so stupid again.

Just to add that he did NOT ask for my details (name, address etc)

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you.

So, the guy took a photo of my fraudulent ticket and then announced to me that it was a fake ticket and switched his body cam on.

You didn’t mention that. In which case they probably won’t forget about it and they probably will investigate you. Expect to receive a letter in the coming months.

Just to add that he did NOT ask for my details (name, address etc)

Oh he doesn’t need them. They’ll get those from the booking site.

 

[WesternLancer]

Get back here for help if they write to you for advice on what to do.

 

[John R]

Does your employer pay directly for the tickets? Ie is it likely they will be contacted, rather than you?

 

[island]

Thank you.

So, the guy took a photo of my fraudulent ticket and then announced to me that it was a fake ticket and switched his body cam on.

At which point he gave me the option of buying a full price return fare, which I did without hesitation.

I’m just hoping that’s case closed and I’m never going to be so stupid again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2024 ==


Just to add that he did NOT ask for my details (name, address etc)

If a new ticket was sold and your details were not taken, that is very likely the end of the matter.

It's possible, though not likely, that they will contact the purchaser of the ticket (traced via the ticket barcode) to chase the matter up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2024 ==

If they were very serious, they could have called the police to attend and retained your device - not just a photograph of it - sealing it into an evidence bag.

This doesn't happen in the real world. The BTP have far more pressing matters to deal with.

At the end of the court process your device might be destroyed instead of being returned to you.

Whilst there exists a theoretical power in section 153 of the Sentencing Act for a deprivation order to be made with respect to a phone used in the commission of an offence, this also doesn't happen in to fare evaders in the real world.

To be quite honest, I don't understand why the train companies don't follow this process in cases like yours to generate some publicity to act as a deterrent. If people started to realise their phones could be confiscated when they present fake tickets on them they might think twice before doing it.

Train operating companies have no right to "confiscate" phones.

 

[qamill4]

You didn’t mention that. In which case they probably won’t forget about it and they probably will investigate you. Expect to receive a letter in the coming months.

Oh he doesn’t need them. They’ll get those from the booking site.

Thank you for your reply.

I was just looking at your interaction with another member on this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-to-track-me-down.268272/page-2#post-6784737

You mentioned that you had not come across a single case on the forum where somebody had been tracked down by a ticket scan/bodycam. Would you still say this is the case or have you seen any cases since that have changed your view?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your reply.

I was just looking at your interaction with another member on this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-to-track-me-down.268272/page-2#post-6784737

You mentioned that you had not come across a single case on the forum where somebody had been tracked down by a ticket scan/bodycam. Would you still say this is the case or have you seen any cases since that have changed your view?

They can write to you - that certainly can and does happen. But that evidence (a body cam plus some ticket purchase details) in and of itself is not enough to prosecute you. They don't know who you are or what you look like - all they'll know is (description of person from bodycam) plus a ticket bought on a website.

It may complicate things if your employer paid for the ticket, as your employer may be pressured to incriminate or identify you, or, you may suffer consequences as work, but we still haven't seen any cases on the forum where there has been a successful prosecution using the mechanism described. That being: picture of ticket > bodycam > contact retailer > court. As a general rule an inspector needs to stop you and interview you and ascertain your identity, and without doing that, a prosecution is very hard to do.