Ticket Evasions advice

[WestMidguy23]

Around a week ago, I made an utterly foolish and stupid mistake. I had been purchasing tickets from a few stations ahead, due to some financial issues I’d been doing this once a week over the last month or so. As you can rightly assume, I had been caught by a ticket inspector/member of the digital fraud team. I completely panicked initially and provided false details, incredibly stupid and I immediately regretted this. I went back to the Lady who had taken them and admitted my guilt there and then. Of course I also then provided the correct details to her, I profusely apologised as this totally out of character for me. Since then my anxiety has been immense, I cannot concentrate, eat or sleep properly. I feel as if I am to be charged with fraud and provided with either a sentence or criminal record (or both) which would utterly cripple my entire life.
The woman had reassured me that I would just need to pay the fares and an admin charge, of course I’m more than happy to do so. Im currently still awaiting either a letter or email from said team, but it is yet to arrive
Does anyone know the timeframes this takes? If so, do you feel like I will be prosecuted or will I be given a fine? Thank you for your time in reading this.

 

[John R]

In most cases, and with most train operating companies (TOCs), you'll be able to negotiate an out of court settlement if you cooperate and say the right things when the letter arrives. If you post it here when it arrives (with identifying details redacted for your privacy) then forum members will be able to help at that time. We always advice to be truthful in your response, but not to incriminate yourself by providing information that they have not asked about (this is particularly true of any repeat offences).

Can you give us a bit more information though in terms of what was the journey you were taking, and from which station did you actually buy the ticket for. Also, I presume you were using an app, which will mean that it is likely that the investigator will check to identify any other instances where you are likely to have committed the same offence.

Even if the worst happens and you are prosecuted it is unlikely to cripple your entire life, and assuming you were found guilty, it would be removed from any DBS check within a relatively short period. However, if you are in employment where people are expected to be of the highest ethical standard, (healthcare, law and financial services come to mind) then a conviction could be more problematic. However, as I said, provided you haven't been doing this for years, it is likely that you will be offered a settlement to keep it out of court. (The one exception is TfL, for which prosecution is the normal approach, and OOC settlements are much more difficult to negotiate.)

 

[WestMidguy23]

Hi Brissle Girl,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
Your assumption was correct I was utilising the Trainline application, I had been purchasing tickets from Jewellery Quarter to Birmingham Snowhill, as opposed to Cradley/Rowley (I get on a different stations depending on my morning lift from a parent)
I had been doing this over the last 3 or so months, not years by any means. Fortunately, as you mentioned TFL, this was with West Midlands Rail.
I am incredibly remorseful about my actions and intend on being as compliant as possible, I am most willing to see if I can pursue an out of court settlement.
Thank you once again for your time.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@WestMidguy23. Welcome to the forum. A so-called "out of court" settlement should be possible if you co-operate with the train company, but you might well have to pay them a three figure £££ sum towards their administration and investigation expenses as well as the full undiscounted anytime day single fare for the journey(s) you made, so maybe a fiver for each and every one way journey from Cradley Heath (or slightly less if from Rowley Regis).

If you've bought your tickets online with the likes of Trainline, it'll be straightforward enough for the investigation team to look up your account and make an educated guess as to just how many times you've been short-faring, but it then remains to be seen as to whether they'll then ask you to stump up for this one fare (on the occasion that you were stopped), or for several multiples of same.

Either way, you'll be expected to pay the total amount demanded all in one go, and if you don't co-operate / settle up, seems, from what you've told us, that there's every chance you'd be found guilty in court and end up with a conviction (and a fine).

Good luck! Take it that the train company has your correct name and address and you're not planning on moving house anytime soon?

 

[WestMidguy23]

Hi @Mcr Warrior
Thank you for both your welcome and response, they are very much appreciated.
In a sense, it is an incredibly relief to hear that an out of court settlement is feasible and that I can pay the issue away, of which I am more than willing to do.
I would rather pay a 3 figure admin figure and the accumulate prices of the fares than have any form of conviction.
I will be sure to put the money aside in preparation of this cost.
Yes, I did provide the correct details for myself and I will not be moving household anytime soon either.
Do you have any guidance as to the wording for my reply? Im going to go on the assumption of being identified as having done this on numerous occasions.
I was thinking to take responsibility, act honestly and inform them that I sincerely regret my actions, that I will never perform commit this offence again and that I’m willing to pay for the accumulative costs of the journeys and any administration fees incurred by the investigation.
Thanks again for your time

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@WestMidguy23. Usual further advice, when the initial letter arrives, is to ask that you upload a copy of same onto here, but with your name and address details suitably obscured, together with the case reference number (if any) covered up also.

We can then take it from there with suggestions as to how best to respond, honestly and truthfully, but without unnecessarily self-incriminating yourself.

 

[spag23]

together with the case reference number (if any).

Don't misread that as supplying us with the case number! I did at first reading.

 

[WestMidguy23]

@WestMidguy23. Usual further advice, when the initial letter arrives, is to ask that you upload a copy of same onto here, but with your name and address details suitably obscured, together with the case reference number (if any) covered up also.

We can then take it from there with suggestions as to how best to respond, honestly and truthfully, but without unnecessarily self-incriminating yourself.

Thank you! I will be sure to upload a redacted copy of the letter here once it arrives, do you know at all how long they usually take to arrive? We mentioned, the circumstance took place last week, so I realise I may be waiting a little while.

 

[John R]

Just one piece of advice when the letter comes. We're finding quite a lot of people are now using AI (maybe ChatGP) to come up with a letter, and they are very rarely suitable. Once you get the letter (and our advice), draft a letter in your own words - it usually comes across a lot better, and I'm sure by now the investigators can spot an AI generated letter a mile off.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you! I will be sure to upload a redacted copy of the letter here once it arrives, do you know at all how long they usually take to arrive? We mentioned, the circumstance took place last week, so I realise I may be waiting a little while.

Have a look at a few other threads for the sort of letter you will get, and the sort of replies suggested - but your general approach is in the right line of thinking.

You will probably have to wait a few weeks to hear - and in theory it could take as long as up to 6 months (reason usually stated here is that this is because there is a 6 month time limit on prosecuting for this offence, should they wish to do so, which would happen eventually if you did not engage with them) but that would be most unlikely. Maybe 3 or 4 weeks potentially. Keep a close eye out for all hard copy post so as not to miss it as you don't get very long to reply.

In the meantime you should
a) make some notes about what happened for your own records (where / when / what was said, what you said etc)
b) check through your own purchase history (no need to list it here tho) to try and establish all the dates when you did this and make a list for your records. This is because they may look for evidence of other trips and some of those may be where you had actually had legit tickets, but they might not believe you, so you may need to be able to be clear about it - eg if you had any evidence you were in that place (eg a receipt for something you bought, or bank statement record that supports you were there if you bought something for example) save and keep that stuff just in case you need it.

IE do a bit of practical homework and preparation now whilst you wait to hear from them. That's better than worrying and getting anxious after all.

 

[WestMidguy23]

Hi all,
I hope you’re well & looking forward to holidays?
Slight update, I’ve still not received any communications from anyone at all. My colleague had received a letter dating 06/12/23 around last Wednesday, they were caught at the same time as me but I’ve heard nothing. Does anyone know any action I should take? What should be my next steps?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,
I hope you’re well & looking forward to holidays?
Slight update, I’ve still not received any communications from anyone at all. My colleague had received a letter dating 06/12/23 around last Wednesday, they were caught at the same time as me but I’ve heard nothing. Does anyone know any action I should take? What should be my next steps?

I guess the choice is waiting longer or you could e-mail them - you'd have to mark it clearly 'for the attention of Revenue Protection Team' so it got to relevant people - is it West Midlands Railway - I can't see a revenue protection e-mail address on their website - just the generic customer services webform but you could use that to ask (at least shows you are making an effort to engage) - or does the paperwork your colleague received have any better contact information on it that you could use perhaps.

 

[WestMidguy23]

I guess the choice is waiting longer or you could e-mail them - you'd have to mark it clearly 'for the attention of Revenue Protection Team' so it got to relevant people - is it West Midlands Railway - I can't see a revenue protection e-mail address on their website - just the generic customer services webform but you could use that to ask (at least shows you are making an effort to engage) - or does the paperwork your colleague received have any better contact information on it that you could use perhaps.

Hi WesternLancer,
Thank you for making contact with me so quickly, I do really appreciate it.
So the letter my colleague received doesn’t have any form of additional contact information aside from an address and a telephone number. I did try the number, but my phone will not connect (I believe due to this being a charged call as it’s a 0844 number).
I am worried that if I don’t show efforts to engage, then this matter would instantly go to court.
As mentioned, I don’t have any communications from the company so far and I’m incredibly anxious.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2023 ==

Just to update, as WesternLancer has kindly suggested I have made an inquiry via the West Midlands rail customer service portal

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Just be patient, the letter will come. The digital fraud team only comprises 3 people currently so, dependent on work load and leave, may take longer to get your letter sent out. It's not really necessary for you to chase them up either.

 

[WestMidguy23]

Just be patient, the letter will come. The digital fraud team only comprises 3 people currently so, dependent on work load and leave, may take longer to get your letter sent out. It's not really necessary for you to chase them up either.

Hi SCDR,
Thank you for your reply, it is very much appreciated.
I had put in an inquiry as specified above by Westernlancer, but this was only to show my willingness to engage with the process.
Im certain that the letter will arrive in due course, my anxiety has been hugely overwhelming in not taking any action.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi SCDR,
Thank you for your reply, it is very much appreciated.
I had put in an inquiry as specified above by Westernlancer, but this was only to show my willingness to engage with the process.
Im certain that the letter will arrive in due course, my anxiety has been hugely overwhelming in not taking any action.

I think you have done the right thing - as @SCDR_WMR says there is every probability the letter will arrive and stuff just takes time - but by messaging through their portal it shows you have made a good effort to contact them and thus implies you want to do the right thing, which is positive.

Keep a copy of what you sent to the portal, and a copy of any auto reply you got back.

It would be very unlikely to go to court without them writing to you before that stage, unless they used the wrong postal address - and if you suddenly got court papers out of the blue there would still be time to engage with the railway company before court date.