Ticket collection from ticket machines - discrimination

[Clip]

"Please enter your PIN"
....
"You entered 1234 - is that correct?"

Or have a full braille keypad that doesnt speak the numbers. Mind you every 5 has a dot on it on keypads to assist in just this way.

 

[snail]

I don't see this as discrimination, just something that could do with further thought. TOCs are obliged to sell tickets to travellers. If the only means of doing this is by TVM then it must be equal for all, but that isn't the case. It gets greyer with TOCs like East Coast that offer discounts for online purchase, but apart from these deals there is always a 'non-discriminatory' ticket available at the normal price, either from a booking office or on train if the booking office is closed. There is no obligation to use a TVM if the office is closed or station is unmanned.

 

[DownSouth]

I don't see this as discrimination, just something that could do with further thought. TOCs are obliged to sell tickets to travellers. If the only means of doing this is by TVM then it must be equal for all, but that isn't the case. It gets greyer with TOCs like East Coast that offer discounts for online purchase, but apart from these deals there is always a 'non-discriminatory' ticket available at the normal price, either from a booking office or on train if the booking office is closed. There is no obligation to use a TVM if the office is closed or station is unmanned.

It is discrimination of the more insidious unseen type that is like the portion of an iceberg, which easily occurs without any malicious intent or even where good intentions are misguided. People need to realise that making the "standard" method of doing things being the method applicable only to "normal" people is what causes discrimination.

It would be far better overall if things like ticket purchasing, station facilities and so on were designed to be fully accessible for all first, and extra shortcuts accessible only to some added later. Taking the access route to an island platform as an example, the primary route would be a ramp and stairs could be added in if and only if there is sufficient space remaining once everything necessary has been placed.

 

[tbtc]

People need to realise that making the "standard" method of doing things being the method applicable only to "normal" people is what causes discrimination

I appreciate that, but very very few stations can justify being staffed all day long (in fact many stations have no booking office whatsoever).

If a TVM cannot be used by those in wheelchairs/ dyslexics/ the blind (etc), and it'd be discrimination to only offer a facility that disabled people cannot use, then what's the answer?

Get rid of all TVMs (meaning passengers at some stations can only buy on board trains, which encourages fare dodgers which encourages other things)?

Fully staffing stations sounds lovely, but it's not going to happen.

Its easy to find a problem, but I'm not sure there's an easy "solution" here...

 

[34D]

There is no obligation to use a TVM if the office is closed or station is unmanned.

This is incorrect. Ignoring a working TVM could result in being charged an anytime single or penalty fare on board.

Another use for NFC, which can pair by tapping the phone or headset against the TVM. I am sure cash machines will do this before TVMs though!

NFC as in near field communication (as in ITSO)? Moving forward 10 years, when every ticketing transaction starts with touching an ITSO card, this could be encoded over how a machine behaves (language, large print, audio, etc).

oh dear wish id never started this

No BlindTraveller it is a great thread. We need the input of people such as yourselves in order for those of us to see issues that don't directly affect everyone.

Blindtraveler - with nearly 2000 posts on this site surely you shd have been aware of the levels of pedantry the thread wld decend to? A lot of the more knowledgeable posters on here have great info but too many people spend time arguing abt things like whether its legal to transport sheep over a level crossing with no barriers on a Sunday in a wooden horse drawn cart if the warning sign hasn't been amended to include the Welsh language translation yet (slight, but only slight, exaggeration for emphasis)

Love it. Would there be two or three horses involved though?

 

[island]

The situation whereby a person with a disability (say a person who is legally blind) is treated less favourably than a person without one, by being unable to use a ticket vending machine to collect an online-booked ticket, is likely to constitute indirect discrimination on the disability ground.

However, it is unlikely to constitute illegal discrimination. In general, service providers are required only to make reasonable adjustments to reduce or remove this less favourable treatment. One of the requirements for an adjustment to be considered reasonable is that it would not cost more than a nominal cost. I would tend to suggest that allowing passengers to collect tickets at booking office windows instead of from machines would not cost more than a nominal amount. Posting out tickets free of charge probably also would be covered by this (and many selling agents are happy to post out tickets for free to everyone anyway). Modifying TVMs or installing additional ones so that they are accessible to everyone with any sort of disability would decidedly not come at a nominal cost, however, so TOCs don't have to do that.

To the point of being able or not to print ToD tickets at booking offices, I believe the selling TOC is charged more by the printing TOC to print a ToD ticket from a booking office than from a TVM.

 

[jon0844]

NFC as in near field communication (as in ITSO)? Moving forward 10 years, when every ticketing transaction starts with touching an ITSO card, this could be encoded over how a machine behaves (language, large print, audio, etc).

Yes, swiping a card first could perhaps set up systems to the user's preferences - like language, audio etc. A very good idea and one I hadn't thought of!

I suppose cash cards can do the language thing by identifying the issuer, but often don't, as someone with a UK bank card might still not want/need English to be the default language. Allowing you to implicitly set preferences is much better.

But in the shorter term, NFC is being used (so far by Nokia) to speed up Bluetooth pairing. Touch the item you want to pair with and there's no need to do the scanning process that takes time and can be fiddly. It could be the way forward for headsets and make it incredibly quick and easy to pair your headset with a mobile phone, car, cash machine or TVM etc.

By this time next year, I expect a good percentage of mobile phones will have NFC. Anyone buying a high-end phone this year, such as the Sony Xperia S, HTC One X, Samsung Galaxy S III will get NFC even if it's not hugely promoted. Nokia has it in the Lumia 610 (and likely all the new Windows Phone models after the Lumia 900 launch) and LG, Motorola etc will follow I'm sure. RIM also has NFC in some models, plus the Samsung Galaxy Nexus and the Google Nexus S. That leaves Apple, dragging its heels.