Ticket clerk refused to sell ticket

[Merseysider]

So I've just been at Salford Crescent ticket office asking for an off peak return from Salford Central to Mauldeth Road.

The man initially refused to sell the ticket, saying I can only purchase a ticket to Mauldeth Road from SLD, this station, then got pretty angry when I tried to explain you can start your journey early.

My plan is SLD - MAU then return MAU - SFD (changing at SLD).

After about ten minutes I gave up and told him I'd pay on the train.

Was I mistaken in thinking you can start early on a return ticket?

 

[bb21]

I don't know what you mean by "starting your journey early" but you can certainly start your journey midway if the ticket has no break of journey restriction, and Salford Central - Salford Crescent - Mauldeth Road is certainly a permitted route.

So the clerk was wrong.

I see that that fare is cheaper from Salford Central so maybe that is the reason why he refused to sell it.

 

[Merseysider]

Probably didn't make that totally clear.
I meant starting the outbound journey from a station inbetween the origin and destination, as I am in this case.

And yes, maybe. It still doesn't excuse him being rude with me though. Should I expect any issues at MAN when I change trains?

 

[bb21]

Yes, you should have been sold the ticket.

I assume that you got the Piccadilly/Airport service at Salford Crescent? You may want to raise a complaint to Northern in this case.

 

[Merseysider]

Yes, you should have been sold the ticket.

I assume that you got the Piccadilly/Airport service at Salford Crescent? You may want to raise a complaint to Northern in this case.

Yes, I boarded the 17.26. No sign of the man selling tickets on board yet, so buying at Piccadilly.

 

[bb21]

Yes, I boarded the 17.26. No sign of the man selling tickets on board yet, so buying at Piccadilly.

You should really have bought the ticket from Salford Crescent, and complained afterwards, I suppose.

Knowing G4S, you have my best wishes to not end up being prosecuted for failing to pay at the first opportunity.

 

[Merseysider]

You should really have bought the ticket from Salford Crescent, and complained afterwards, I suppose.

Knowing G4S, you have my best wishes to not end up being prosecuted for failing to pay at the first opportunity.

Thanks.

You're entirely right, however the TOD machine at Salford Crescent cannot print tickets starting from a different station. I always pay before boarding because you can't get the railcard discount if you pay on board the train.

As it turns out, the staff at Piccadilly were more than happy to sell me the ticket I needed and it was done within 15 seconds. Maybe the clerk at SLD was just having a bad day.

 

[bb21]

Good to hear that it turned out alright. All the stories we are getting about people getting in trouble at Piccadilly is making me very nervous at the moment.

 

[Merseysider]

I know what you mean, but I think the fact I went straight to their little 'ticket stall' at the bottom of the travelators rather than try and argue my way through their barricade may have worked in my favour.

Indeed, there was a queue to get out because, from the sounds of things, someone else didn't have a ticket. Surprisingly though, other than today, I have always found Northern staff to be polite if one is polite back.

Also, I've never actually noticed the G4S staff, do they simply wear Northern uniforms?

 

[Segedunum]

I know what you mean, but I think the fact I went straight to their little 'ticket stall' at the bottom of the travelators rather than try and argue my way through their barricade may have worked in my favour.

Indeed, there was a queue to get out because, from the sounds of things, someone else didn't have a ticket. Surprisingly though, other than today, I have always found Northern staff to be polite if one is polite back.

Also, I've never actually noticed the G4S staff, do they simply wear Northern uniforms?

I noticed last weekend that at least one at Man Picc. was wearing a Northern uniform with a G4S ID Card on his lanyard.

 

[Merseysider]

I noticed last weekend that at least one at Man Picc. was wearing a Northern uniform with a G4S ID Card on his lanyard.

A wolf in sheep's clothing eh. What concerns me is that they are probably paid some form of commission or bonus for each passenger they penalise, many of whom know little about their rights or how to argue back.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Also, I've never actually noticed the G4S staff, do they simply wear Northern uniforms?

G4S uniforms are ever so slightly different, they have a G4S logo on them in addition to the Northern logo. It is fair to say that the majority of Northern's actual front line staff are not happy about it.

 

[Merseysider]

G4S uniforms are ever so slightly different, they have a G4S logo on them in addition to the Northern logo. It is fair to say that the majority of Northern's actual front line staff are not happy about it.

Just so I've got this clear, do Northern contract G4S to do their ticket checks / hand out fines for them? Or do G4S work on behalf of Network Rail and wear Northern uniforms to blend in?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A wolf in sheep's clothing eh. What concerns me is that they are probably paid some form of commission or bonus for each passenger they penalise, many of whom know little about their rights or how to argue back.

I doubt the staff get anything......

 

[maniacmartin]

G4S are contracted by Northern.

Regarding your earlier claim, the full range of tickets should be available including railcard discounts on board if that is the first opportunity to buy the ticket you require. As the clerk refused to sell it to you, I would class on board as the first opportunity if the guard came round

 

[Merseysider]

As the clerk refused to sell it to you, I would class on board as the first opportunity if the guard came round

That's what I was hoping if I got any hassle. I'm inclined to just buy my tickets through NRE (I know it isn't actually them that sell the tickets) and pick them up at SLD but the two hour delay puts me off.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Just so I've got this clear, do Northern contract G4S to do their ticket checks / hand out fines for them? Or do G4S work on behalf of Network Rail and wear Northern uniforms to blend in?

G4S is a contractor for Northern. Northern authorise them to check tickets and pass on details of those who 'fail to pay'.

 

[bb21]

G4S are contracted by Northern.

Regarding your earlier claim, the full range of tickets should be available including railcard discounts on board if that is the first opportunity to buy the ticket you require. As the clerk refused to sell it to you, I would class on board as the first opportunity if the guard came round

The difficulty, as always, is proving it.

That's what I was hoping if I got any hassle. I'm inclined to just buy my tickets through NRE (I know it isn't actually them that sell the tickets) and pick them up at SLD but the two hour delay puts me off.

Next time buy it from someone like eastcoast.co.uk or any operator using the WebTIS engine. Tickets should be available immediately.

 

[Merseysider]

G4S is a contractor for Northern. Northern authorise them to check tickets and pass on details of those who 'fail to pay'.

Which could potentially lead to problems if G4S staff aren't aware of easements or permitted routes on seemingly unorthodox tickets. Why don't Northern just hire staff to do that directly for them?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Which could potentially lead to problems if G4S staff aren't aware of easements or permitted routes on seemingly unorthodox tickets. Why don't Northern just hire staff to do that directly for them?

Money.

 

[Merseysider]

Next time buy it from someone like eastcoast.co.uk or any operator using the WebTIS engine. Tickets should be available immediately.

I've got a journey to Blackpool coming up so I'll certainly try getting tickets this way.

 

[bb21]

Which could potentially lead to problems if G4S staff aren't aware of easements or permitted routes on seemingly unorthodox tickets. Why don't Northern just hire staff to do that directly for them?

Because using contractors gives you more flexibility when things change, such as when these positions are no longer required. Instead of having to deal with industrial relations issues and employment issues of the staff affected if they are employed directly, it is now the contractor's problem.

And money as hairyhandedfool said.

 

[island]

G4S are contracted by Northern.

Regarding your earlier claim, the full range of tickets should be available including railcard discounts on board if that is the first opportunity to buy the ticket you require. As the clerk refused to sell it to you, I would class on board as the first opportunity if the guard came round

Not quite. (1) You might have difficulty proving it and (2) you are still obliged to buy a ticket from the range that is available allowing you to make part of your journey, and then part-exchange that for the desired ticket on the train or at a later stage.

 

[455driver]

What concerns me is that they are probably paid some form of commission or bonus for each passenger they penalise, many of whom know little about their rights or how to argue back.

Got any proof of this then?
Its rather a serious allegation!

 

[Chapeltom]

Got any proof of this then?
Its rather a serious allegation!

Oh come on. :roll:

The poster said 'probably' given he was most probably unsure, and was guessing before saying "paid some form of commission or bonus for each passenger they penalise." In other fields of work, people do get commission on the job for doing certain things, it is a rational way of thinking about it. So I do not suggest that is a serious allegation as you claim, and rather an innocent statement.

 

[Merseysider]

Got any proof of this then?
Its rather a serious allegation!

No proof as such, but Northern, having run the franchise for a decade now, must have some rough idea of how many fare evaders would be caught out on a particular route / at any given station over a period of time. I assume if G4S were constantly submitting notably low amounts of passenger details for UFPNs etc there'd be some explaining to do. So my reasoning is that staff would have some incentive to make sure they were doing their job properly. I may be wrong however.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh come on. :roll:

The poster said 'probably' given he was most probably unsure, and was guessing before saying "paid some form of commission or bonus for each passenger they penalise." In other fields of work, people do get commission on the job for doing certain things, it is a rational way of thinking about it. So I do not suggest that is a serious allegation as you claim, and rather an innocent statement.

Appreciate it

 

[jkdd77]

Not quite. (1) You might have difficulty proving it and (2) you are still obliged to buy a ticket from the range that is available allowing you to make part of your journey, and then part-exchange that for the desired ticket on the train or at a later stage.

Whilst acknowledging point (1), I suspect that, had the OP, having been refused the valid ticket he/she asked for, then asked for a ticket to the next station in order to comply with NRCoC Condition 3, the clerk would have accused him or her of fare evasion and refused to sell it to him or her.

 

[455driver]

Oh come on. :roll:

The poster said 'probably' given he was most probably unsure, and was guessing before saying "paid some form of commission or bonus for each passenger they penalise." In other fields of work, people do get commission on the job for doing certain things, it is a rational way of thinking about it. So I do not suggest that is a serious allegation as you claim, and rather an innocent statement.

So if I was to post something like-

I think some posters on here are stupid, dont have a clue how the railways work and shouldnt be allowed near a 20 year old Hornby trainset never mind the real railway.

That would be okay because I put "I think" at the beginning of it would it?
Thought not!

If he is unsure of something then ask it as a question dont post it as a statement! :roll:

 

[Merseysider]

So if I was to post something like-

I think some posters on here are stupid, dont have a clue how the railways work and shouldnt be allowed near a 20 year old Hornby trainset never mind the real railway.

That would be okay because I put "I think" at the beginning of it would it?
Thought not!

If he is unsure of something then ask it as a question dont post it as a statement! :roll:

That would be perfectly fine, you are entitled to your own opinion no matter how objectionable it is!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Got any proof of this then?
Its rather a serious allegation!

Are you implying that it's a serious allegation because it's immoral? It's a standard method of working at other TOCs.