Ticket Checks

[Greenback]

The information is readily available, but drilling down to the reasons for discrepancies isn't as easy as it might seem. There could be peaks and troughs on different days, different service sand even different times of the year. Then there are also machine failures and other legitimate reason why tickets could not be sold on a given train.

 

[tsr]

You can extract a fairly large amount of information from what Avantix machines have recorded. The PDAs and back office software tools are perhaps surprisingly smart and can record peak times at which tickets are sold, logging on/off in accordance with diagrams, revenue performance for specific diagrams, and so on. A conductor manager and in some cases a depot revenue analyst/manager will track these but it's much less important than any safety issues. if a conductor/guard is acting safely at work, that's the main thing; action about revenue issues seems to vary wildly between TOCs, but fraud (eg. deliberate incorrect discounts on tickets) is the biggest driver that I have ever known for disciplinary action, with sales performance largely reacted to with praise for good work rather than criticism for poor figures. Anyone in a guard's role has far bigger fish to fry than ticket sales, and by and large I usually find this is reflected in actions taken. That said, poor performance is flagged up at some TOCs (and autonomously by individual depots) and can be queried if extremes arise.

 

[6Gman]

Was on the 1547 Liverpool - Euston today.

TM was checking tickets before we got to Edge Hill! And started from the front end of Standard Class.

Impressed.

 

[trentside]

The information is readily available, but drilling down to the reasons for discrepancies isn't as easy as it might seem. There could be peaks and troughs on different days, different service sand even different times of the year. Then there are also machine failures and other legitimate reason why tickets could not be sold on a given train.

Quite correct. We have two afternoon jobs at my depot that finish late evening and takings vary quite wildly day by day simply because people's travel patterns do. On one job I've taken as little as £35 and as much as £650, the other can range from £60 to about £250. The former can also get a last minute boost as two stations from the end you often get crowds of revellers heading into town for a night out certain days of the week (normally student night), but it's weather dependant.

Machine failures are my biggest irritation, as it adversely affects my income as well as presenting a poor image to passengers. In those circumstances I'll always walk through the train to ensure I'm visible if anyone needs assistance.

 

[Starmill]

I recently made a journey as follows:

North Berwick to Edinburgh
Edinburgh to Linlithgow
Linlithgow to Falkirk Grahamston
Falkirk Grahamston to Cumbernauld
Cumbernauld to Charing Cross (Glasgow)

I didn't reach the end of my final journey to well gone 2200, and yet my ticket was inspected on every train. It's not like Greater Manchester around there though!

It is exceptionally rare for me to use a ScotRail or ATW service and not have my ticket inspected. Although a couple of Sundays ago I did get the 2146 Alderley Edge to Manchester Picc (from Milford Haven) and the guard was not checking tickets. This was really surprising because usually ATW guards will get everyone who joins the Manchester train at Wilmslow - totally unlike the VT service of course.

 

[Clip]

checked on LO service this evening. HTH

 

[PauloDavesi]

Checked on a mid afternoon LM Cross City line train today. First time in years that I've had tickets checked on that line.

Traveled back from Edinburgh to Birmingham, including coach to Penrith, at the start of last month with no sign of the onboard operatives at all.

 

[robbeech]

I do Whitwell (WWL) to Kings Cross )KGX) and back quite a bit. I often find my ticket checked between WWL and Worksop (WRK) (an EMT service). Between WRK and Retford (RET) (A northern service) and then every so often i might get the opportunity to speak out and show a ticket on the service to KGX. "Any unchecked tickets please". Whilst it may be considered wrong, i often ignore them and see if they walk past, which they always do. I DO HAVE a valid ticket of course.

On the return leg sometimes there is a full ticket check between KGX and PBO (Peterboroguh) somewhere, sometimes nothing until further up the line where it is once again a request for unchecked tickets.

no barriers at WWL, WRK, or RET (though i'm connecting anyway) and i usually get to KGX at a time when the barriers are open (at least the ones on the bridge outside the 1st class lounge anyway). I could likely get there and back countless times on a £4.** WWL to RET return.

I have also done Aberdeen (ABD) to KGX with no checks and no closed barriers, in 1st class, with 2 meals, and a couple of beers and a G&T. I have a valid ticket of course, but i must say i have been deliberately not showing it unless specifically asked as this sort of thing interests me.


Rob

 

[WestCoast]

Checked on a mid afternoon LM Cross City line train today. First time in years that I've had tickets checked on that line

My goodness, what did you do to deserve that? I've been a regular on the (southern part of the) Cross City for three of the past four years, including a year of commuting on it every day, and have experienced the grand total of two onboard ticket checks in that time. Three if you include a guy from Centro doing research. There are barriers at some of the stations, but they're open off-peak. There was a full operation with RPIs and police the other day at University, it seems they target open days at the University.
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I used to think LM guards simply didn't check tickets in the Centro area (fair enough as it's very 'metro' like) but they do seem to on the Snow Hill Lines.

 

[urbophile]

Liverpool Lime Street to Euston last Thursday: no checks anywhere. Returning on Monday (train full to capacity) barrier check at Euston. In my experience of this run there is a less than 50% chance of having your ticket checked.
I realised last week that I had been using a Senior Railcard which expired last September. I have shown it every time I have used it (admittedly only on local journeys, but on average one a week) without anybody twigging. Even though the date is printed large and clear.

(PS: will those people who use station codes instead of their names please let us oiks know where we can look them up!)

 

[robbeech]

(PS: will those people who use station codes instead of their names please let us oiks know where we can look them up!)

Guilty.

http://www.coris.org.uk/jdc/Rail/station_codes.tlc.html

is just one place i have bookmarked, likely as it was the first on google i found some time ago.
National Rail Enquiries website also gives lists.

 

[hassaanhc]

Yesterday there was a group of RPIs in one of the corridors between Victoria and Jubilee lines at Green Park

 

[Harlesden]

I do WWL to KGX and back quite a bit. I often find my ticket checked between WWL and WRK (an EMT service). Between WRK and RET (A northern service) and then every so often i might get the opportunity to speak out and show a ticket on the service to KGX. "Any unchecked tickets please". Whilst it may be considered wrong, i often ignore them and see if they walk past, which they always do. I DO HAVE a valid ticket of course.

On the return leg sometimes there is a full ticket check between KGX and PBO somewhere, sometimes nothing until further up the line where it is once again a request for unchecked tickets.

no barriers at WWL, WRK, or RET (though i'm connecting anyway) and i usually get to KGX at a time when the barriers are open (at least the ones on the bridge outside the 1st class lounge anyway). I could likely get there and back countless times on a £4.** WWL to RET return.

I have also done ABD to KGX with no checks and no closed barriers, in 1st class, with 2 meals, and a couple of beers and a G&T. I have a valid ticket of course, but i must say i have been deliberately not showing it unless specifically asked as this sort of thing interests me.


Rob

May one ask why? It seems to be a peculiar hobby.

 

[HowardGWR]

May one ask why? It seems to be a peculiar hobby.

While awaiting the answer, i'll have a guess that he writes to the management and points out where their systems and staff are failing. Otherwise, it does seem indeed a rather, ahem, peculiar activity.

 

[robbeech]

I wouldn't call it a hobby, nor do i write to people. I just find it interesting that this requirement of honesty and level of trust seems to go from one extreme to the other.
I can board a train at Retford and Leave the train and station at Edinburgh or London having travelled in first class and had several pounds worth of refreshments without once being asked to prove i am permitted to be there. A journey that can cost several hundred pounds if purchased on the day. Yet, on the very same day a person can be treated somewhat poorly by an inspector and hounded by 4 or 5 other station / toc staff from the outset until they can find the correct ticket in their wallet and happily prove they have paid the correct £2.60 fare for the 6 minute journey from one town to the next.

I FULLY understand what people are saying about not having time to do a full ticket run and operate the doors and other operational duties, i see this when i travel to Nottingham.

I can't help thinking that the ticket might not be several hundred pounds if bought on the day if everyone travelling had one.

Rob

 

[Bertie the bus]

Lack of ticket checks isn’t a new thing. I had a reasonable number of All Line Rovers and Scottish Rovers in the 80s and early 90s and after noticing I often didn’t have my ticket checked started making a note of which trains I did have it checked. Just out of interest really to see how far I could have travelled without a ticket. I don’t know the answer to that but the fact I started making a note of when my ticket was checked shows it frequently wasn’t.

I don’t buy this argument that there isn’t time between stations to do ticket checks. That doesn’t stop many guards on services with regular station stops from doing it and if they don’t manage to get to everybody they stop, do the doors and then start again from where they left off.

 

[Antman]

Lack of ticket checks isn’t a new thing. I had a reasonable number of All Line Rovers and Scottish Rovers in the 80s and early 90s and after noticing I often didn’t have my ticket checked started making a note of which trains I did have it checked. Just out of interest really to see how far I could have travelled without a ticket. I don’t know the answer to that but the fact I started making a note of when my ticket was checked shows it frequently wasn’t.

I don’t buy this argument that there isn’t time between stations to do ticket checks. That doesn’t stop many guards on services with regular station stops from doing it and if they don’t manage to get to everybody they stop, do the doors and then start again from where they left off.

I think that rather depends on the type of train, if the doors can only be done from the back cab and there are frequent stops I don't see how a guard can be expected to do a ticket check.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Well many guards do. I think it is Northern's policy that doors must be released from the rear of the train but on many lines with frequent stops it is rare for tickets not to be checked even on busy, though not packed to the rafters, trains. The Colne branch has frequent stops and most stations have no ticket facilities so guards have to not just check tickets but also issue them to many people and that, in my experience, is one of the best in the country for ticket checks - even on late evening trains.

 

[ScouserGirl]

I've noticed with Virgin Trains West Coast they don't really check the tickets on Wednesday no one checked my ticket going down to London and also coming back up no one checked the ticket, so anyone could have got on the train which didn't have a valid ticket!

 

[miami84]

I've noticed with Virgin Trains West Coast they don't really check the tickets on Wednesday no one checked my ticket going down to London and also coming back up no one checked the ticket, so anyone could have got on the train which didn't have a valid ticket!

Is this a serious post or just a little joke? I travel regularly on VT from Runcorn and always get my ticket checked. Even on a Wednesday!

 

[b127222]

May one ask why? It seems to be a peculiar hobby.

Because it is an amusing game to see how far you can travel with nobody checking your ticket.

I have done numerous trips between Euston and Manchester with not sight nor sign of anyone interested in checking I have a valid ticket, either at the stations or on the train.

 

[ScouserGirl]

Is this a serious post or just a little joke? I travel regularly on VT from Runcorn and always get my ticket checked. Even on a Wednesday!

Serious post we didn't get our ticket check at all, it's happened a few times when I've traveled..

 

[Antman]

Serious post we didn't get our ticket check at all, it's happened a few times when I've traveled..

I've done a few trips on VT when there has been no ticket check at all, I don't about Wednesdays specifically though

 

[ScouserGirl]

I've done a few trips on VT when there has been no ticket check at all, I don't about Wednesdays specifically though

am just saying that's when I travelled! I've travelled other days and I've still not had ticket checks, but I have noticed on the 2107 Euston to Lime street they have ticket check before you board the train.

 

[Kite159]

Another day on merseyrail units... Another day without any ticket checks. Showed a random ticket at the gateline at Lime Street low level.

There must be so much ticket less travel in those parts, when your not heading to Southport or Liverpool city centre.

Meanwhile on the main station, the booths at P1-P6 have gone (preparation for barriers I'm guessing), to gain access to the LM Birmingham & VT services you needed to show a ticket. Pretty much had a ticket check on all the northern services used today.

 

[LowLevel]

The booths at Lime Street were pointless anyway. At least one of the blokes in there is a waste of space who doesn't acknowledge the existence of railway staff let alone passengers and god forbid ever checking a ticket. The regulars all knew this and walked past him regardless. It's very unusual to work a train from Lime Street without selling at least one ticket.

 

[stuartyoung]

Scotrail are generally quite good and visible during most services. I travel on the Ayrline a lot as well, and full ticket checks are done leaving Ayr, even though its barriered

On every journey, that I have traveled solely in Scotland, the staff at stations and on the trains have been excellent, Informative. It was a bit of a nightmare getting to ladybank (cant remember which station that time, I presume as the return was from there) between Christmas and New year, Leaving Edinburgh about 20 or (if memory serves me correctly), first time traveling there. The staff at Edinburgh were great and also the staff i encounted on the two trains there (possibly 3), esp with directions and platforms. Shame that the return journey was unplanned early in the new year. advance tickets booked quite sometime before, got to station and there were no tracks! good job my friend had a car and drove us to kirkcaldy, i was extremely concerned of getting a penalty fair for being on the wrong train. I asked the staff at Kirkcaldy and was told it was ok to board. we got our connection in Edinburgh and home on time.
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oops I can find no edit button! the trian from Edinburgh was 2220 or so

 

[exile]

The booths at Lime Street were pointless anyway. At least one of the blokes in there is a waste of space who doesn't acknowledge the existence of railway staff let alone passengers and god forbid ever checking a ticket. The regulars all knew this and walked past him regardless. It's very unusual to work a train from Lime Street without selling at least one ticket.

I know the one you mean..... (mind you I've been grateful to him once or twice when running for a train....)

 

[reb0118]

Shame that the return journey was unplanned early in the new year. advance tickets booked quite sometime before, got to station and there were no tracks! good job my friend had a car

No tracks!? What kind of railway are we running up here?

Engineering works or covered in snow?

 

[stuartyoung]

No tracks!? What kind of railway are we running up here?

Engineering works or covered in snow?

Engineering works, i think that was 2013 january.
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Engineering works, i think that was 2013 january.

2014 departure 2013 arrival