Ticket checking logic

[steadmane]

Travelling on the Charing Cross to Hastings train yesterday afternoon, the standard ticket check took place between Sevenoaks and Tonbridge. I am not a daily commuter anymore but make a considerable amount of journeys. As I understand it the London stations, Orpington and Sevenoaks are all gated, so a check would not be as important as further downline. Why is there some sort of acceptance that those joining the train from Frant onwards don't need tickets checked? It seems very rare - maybe one in five - where the guard seems to check more than once in either direction and never on a journey into Hastings past Tunbridge Wells. It also doesnt take a frequent traveller to notice there appears to be a considerable amount of non-ticketed travellers from these stations onwards. Battle and Warrior Square into Hastings seems to be most prevalent.

I only mention this because today I saw four people join the train at Battle and, even with the gates working, three walked out behind ticketed customers while the fourth just started arguing with the gatemaster.

I am aware that there is a time restriction to check tickets but surely some effort would be made - Southern and South Eastern must know that a lot of unpaid travel happens close to Hastings?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Equally, though, there will be a lot of people using one stop tickets in the barriered areas to get through the barriers won't there? So yes, they should check further out - but should also retain the checks within the barrier areas.

 

[BestWestern]

Hmm, just a guess but perhaps the local scroats have caused so much aggro in the past that many staff just can't be doing with it?! That's only a thought, I don't know the area and could be completely wrong!

Most TOCs now operate a policy of insisting that Guards and other staff go out of their way to avoid any conflict or confrontation, as well as ensuring that they don't delay a train for anything short of a direct meteorite strike. What this translates to in the real world is 'if they don't want to pay just leave them to it', which in turn has the consequence that a lot of staff just won't bother wasting their time in areas where nobody wants to pay!

 

[steadmane]

You're both almost certainly correct. It's just an irritation. I guess my point is if they want to do a one-check journey maybe mix it up a little.

 

[scotsman]

Conversely, (the OP hasn't said how busy the train was), maybe the train just got considerably busier and the Guard didn't get the chance to get through?

 

[Southern]

It's the same on the Canterbury - Dover line; guard rarely bothers to check tickets on a service from London but nearly always to London.

 

[BestWestern]

It's the same on the Canterbury - Dover line; guard rarely bothers to check tickets on a service from London but nearly always to London.

There is likely a perception here - by no means correctly - that pax coming away from London will all have tix already, but on the way in they might well want to buy them, and they might well be going somewhere far away and quite expensive!

The Severn Beach line in Bristol can be similar; all fares going away from Bristol towards the branch are peanuts, but on the way back out there might be a good few healthy tickets and so some Guards are rather more enthusiastic!

 

[Flamingo]

Hmm, just a guess but perhaps the local scroats have caused so much aggro in the past that many staff just can't be doing with it?! That's only a thought, I don't know the area and could be completely wrong!

Most TOCs now operate a policy of insisting that Guards and other staff go out of their way to avoid any conflict or confrontation, as well as ensuring that they don't delay a train for anything short of a direct meteorite strike. What this translates to in the real world is 'if they don't want to pay just leave them to it', which in turn has the consequence that a lot of staff just won't bother wasting their time in areas where nobody wants to pay!

Even a meteorite strike will attract a "Please explain"

"If they are sitting quiet, leave them. We don't want delays, complaints or incident forms. You are not an ATE, your job is to get the train there on time, if they don't have tickets it's Revenue's problem."

A summary of the most recent "discussion" with my manager on the subject of ticket checking by guards and the consequences thereof.

 

[Welshman]

Even a meteorite strike will attract a "Please explain"



A summary of the most recent "discussion" with my manager on the subject of ticket checking by guards and the consequences thereof.

You must feel very demotivated.

 

[RJ]

How close together are the stops on that line? The safety of the train and prompt dispatching will take precedence over ticket inspections.

 

[yorkie]

steadmane - OK, so you've established that the guard isn't checking tickets from Frant (I had to look that one up - never heard of it before!). But you have not told us what the guard is doing? As the guard does appear to be doing something, and there is a lot more to the role than just checking tickets.

A look at the timings and it becomes clear why the main ticket checks occur in the long non-stop sections between London Bridge - Orpington (15 minutes) and Orpington - Sevenoaks (9 minutes), and not further down the line.

Frant [FRT] 1415 1415 2
Wadhurst [WAD] 1420 1420 2
Stonegate [SOG] 1426 1426 2
Etchingham [ETC] 1431 1431 2
Robertsbridge [RBR] 1435 1435 2
MNTFLDT Pass 1438 Pass
Battle [BAT] 1442 1443 2
Crowhurst [CWU] 1446 1446 2
West St Leonards [WLD] 1451 1451 2
BOPEEPJ Pass 1452 Pass
St Leonards Warrior Square [SLQ] 1454 1455 2
Hastings [HGS] 1459

It is also unclear how long the train is (4 car? 8 car?), and whether you were sat close to the guard to observe what the guard was doing.

Also, with stations that close together, if there are problems with people refusing to pay as you say, then the guard is best leaving it for RPIs to deal with on occasions as if the guard gets involved in an altercation that could delay the train. (There's not much point challenging a chav if you know you can't win - that's a really frustrating, demoralising situation to be in!)

 

[Flamingo]

Not necessarily Chav's, Yorkie. Hell hath no fury like a Telegraph reading passenger who'se PA neglected to tell him it was an Advance ticket and who claims to be a shareholder in First Group!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You must feel very demotivated.

No, not at all, it clarified exactly what the company expects me to do and what my priorities are. Now I just walk away without argueing with them, and my stress levels have gone right down. At the end of the day, the job is whatever the management chain want me to do - in a year's time it could be "Revenue at all costs", and then I'll do that.

 

[steadmane]

The guard generally checks once or twice on the up service into London - normally between Hastings and Tunbridge Wells and then aft-TW, so the time issues between stops should not matter and quite often they will walk up and down asking for any unchecked tickets.

This is not a criticism of any guard duties. I am genuinely interested in why there is less of a reason to check tickets on the down-route as it is patently obvious there is a lot of ticketless short-distance travel. I suppose I understand better when a reason given above is that it's revenue's issue and not the guard's main concern.

Thanks for the input.