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Ticket barriers now installed at Stoke-on-Trent

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Trainfan344

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I for one am against the barriers being installed. Mainly due to the way the ticket machines have been re-located! Where as before the ticket machine queue was separate from the main ticket office queue, they are now merged which causes chaos and makes the area feel really cramped. Oh and the fact that the metal gate was a nice way to get on/off the platform from my direction to trainspot.
 
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Starmill

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I don't understand why it's considered acceptable to close entrances and make people walk further in order to install barriers.
 

Kite159

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I hope they will be better worked out than those barriers at P1 at Euston (which are going to be a nightmare if you are in the 'rear' of the train on arrival of a busy service from Scotland with passengers with lots of luggage having to use a manual gate or the wide gate.

Ticket gates are not the magic solution which will solve all fare dodging, but will reduce the amount of dodging
 

crehld

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I can't disagree with any of the above, however your mention of the 'cure/and not being further from the truth' gave the impression that they have no impact whatsoever.

I meant to challenge the assumption that installing barriers will solve all fare evasion woes... it won't.

Long trains with short travelling times is going to make checks difficult, which is why barriers certainly make sense. Employ and diagram an additional ticket examiner per train and you still have someone who you're asking to go through 5 coaches between two stops in say 12 - 15 minutes or so. It's just not going to happen.

Make use of more than one extra ticket examiner? You only need to look at the Glasgow suburban services to see someone focused solely on checking tickets can work swiftly and efficiently on trains which stop much more frequently than every 12-15 minutes. Northern seem to be doing this more and more which is a welcome sight.

Barrier key stations and then do a revenue sting with 4 RPIs every now and again though to pick up on the short farers would probably work out cheaper.

RPIs on a barrier line will be no more effective at combating short faring than barriers (i.e. ineffective). Put them on the train. I'd have thought that would be much more effective, especially as you can catch people red handed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't understand why it's considered acceptable to close entrances and make people walk further in order to install barriers.

It's not. Which is why I'm glad to hear the car park access on P2 won't be closed off, but slightly annoyed the direct access to the bus stops and taxi rank is now restricted. It's not a massive walk to be fair, but the taxi rank and bus stop are now not readily visible from the only station exit on that side, which perhaps discourages people from making use of the bus, and more worriyingly directs people away from the official regulated taxis and towards the unofficial and unlicenced minicabs stationed directly opposite the main entrance.
 
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thenorthern

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The Taxi rank exit closure is a pain yes however I think there was a need to install barriers as fare evasion was very high and increasing.

I was at Stoke-on-Trent this morning and a cramped East Midlands Trans Class 153 shed its load at 07:33, there were some people without a ticket who attempted to walk through the barriers which the Welcome Hosts (Gate Staff) stopped but the queue wasn't too bad.

Manchester Piccadilly is due to get its barriers installed in March 2016. The Train Manager did mention this morning that barriers are now in place at Macclesfield but I don't know if that was proper barriers or just a revenue block.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I don't understand why it's considered acceptable to close entrances and make people walk further in order to install barriers.

It's all in the interests of the new god, Security (CCTV etc).
BR's open stations policy is pretty much dead now.
 

CaptainHaddock

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It's all in the interests of the new god, Security (CCTV etc).
BR's open stations policy is pretty much dead now.

Maybe in some areas but here in Yorkshire the likes of Sheffield, Doncaster and York seem to manage perfectly well without ticket barriers.

And when you have to endure the ridiculous queues to get through the barriers at Leeds at peak times, you can understand why many feel ticket barriers are a massive inconvenience to solve a relatively minor problem - ie fare dodging.
 

bramling

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Maybe in some areas but here in Yorkshire the likes of Sheffield, Doncaster and York seem to manage perfectly well without ticket barriers.

And when you have to endure the ridiculous queues to get through the barriers at Leeds at peak times, you can understand why many feel ticket barriers are a massive inconvenience to solve a relatively minor problem - ie fare dodging.

I wouldn't say it's a minor problem - on some parts of the railway it's rife.

If you don't get on top of it, more will do it, then those who do pay will (quite reasonably) decide "why should I keep subsidising this?".

I can see both sides of the argument. Gates can be a nuisance, especially if you're last in the queue off a busy train, or have luggage, an unusual ticket etc. But there's no doubt they do bring in revenue, especially for journeys in/out of major towns and cities, and they also have some benefit in keeping undesirables out of the railway. They also make life easier for train crews as they reduce the numbers on the train without tickets.

On balance I can tolerate them, but they need to be well laid out, and supported by other forms of inspection. Also TOCs need to ensure stations have adequate means buy tickets, and this includes small stations. The queues found at Manchester Piccadilly or the awkward Finsbury Park layout is not how it should be done.
 
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I always buy a ticket but I know friends who don't. If people want to dodge then currently they still can from three places; via the platform 2 car park entrance and the lift, via the entrance at the 'taxi end' of platform one, and through the cafe!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh Ive just noticed the post that the taxi end has been closed off,
 
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Not seen how the gateline is positioned myself. So, how does it work with the Pumpkin cafe? It has an entrance to the front of the lobby and one onto the back of platform. I presume they have locked the access to the platform and so placed the cafe on the unticketed area? Not so good if you're changing trains at Stoke and want to get a drink at a reasonable price.
 

PHILIPE

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As regard to the Pumpkin cafe at Exeter St Davids, there are 2 doors, one off Platform 1 and one outside the gateline. However, when a gateline was installed some years ago the platform entrance was blocked off.
 

QueensCurve

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It's all in the interests of the new god, Security (CCTV etc).
BR's open stations policy is pretty much dead now.

That is the sad thing.

Not only the loss of open stations, but the intrusion of the fences to make the barriers workable. Se how they despoil Waverly or Bristol Temptation.
 

CaptainHaddock

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That is the sad thing.

Not only the loss of open stations, but the intrusion of the fences to make the barriers workable. Se how they despoil Waverly or Bristol Temptation.

And, by delaying and inconveniencing people who do have tickets, they are also penalising legitimate travellers.
 

QueensCurve

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Platform tickets are still a thing, at least unofficially, having recently got one at New Street. Blank ticket stock with handwritten note to let me see a friend off.

At Bristol Porkway I have on 3 or 4 occasions gone to meet someone - female with heavy luggage - off a train (or see them off) In cases where the barriers were operating the staff were willing to let me through.

Generally it was someone different on the barrier when I came out again. In both cases I was allowed out, but it causes a degree of anxiety.

Once I met the same person at Liverpool Lime Juice and gave up on the idea of going onto the platform.

If barriers are to be provided, then some form of platform ticket is essential.
 

thenorthern

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Regarding the currently open Platform 2 although it is open its not realistic to use as a way to avoid the barriers as the only entrance to a car park is up a 300m road which although it does have a pavement it leads directly to the junction with the A500 (D-Link road). With car drivers though someone who is paying £8.50 for parking is unlikely going to be someone who avoids fares.

Not seen how the gateline is positioned myself. So, how does it work with the Pumpkin cafe? It has an entrance to the front of the lobby and one onto the back of platform. I presume they have locked the access to the platform and so placed the cafe on the unticketed area? Not so good if you're changing trains at Stoke and want to get a drink at a reasonable price.

As regard to the Pumpkin cafe at Exeter St Davids, there are 2 doors, one off Platform 1 and one outside the gateline. However, when a gateline was installed some years ago the platform entrance was blocked off.

The doors to the Pumpkin Cafe in the booking hall at Stoke-on-Trent have now been locked meaning that its only possible to access the Pumpkin Cafe from Platform 1. Nevertheless I have noticed several people attempting to exit via the Pumpkin Cafe in the booking hall just to make sure the doors are really locked.
 

ag51ruk

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Maybe in some areas but here in Yorkshire the likes of Sheffield, Doncaster and York seem to manage perfectly well without ticket barriers.

And when you have to endure the ridiculous queues to get through the barriers at Leeds at peak times, you can understand why many feel ticket barriers are a massive inconvenience to solve a relatively minor problem - ie fare dodging.

The TOCs managing two of those stations (Sheffield and York) felttit was worthwhile enough to try to install ticket gates in the past, but faced local opposition due to access issues from the secondary entrance in both cases.

People lived with ticket barriers/checks at even the smallest of stations until the early 80s, I'm a big supporter of well implemented ticket gates (i.e. enough of them to avoid queues, and no loophole exits that make them useless)
 

crehld

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I always buy a ticket but I know friends who don't. If people want to dodge then currently they still can from three places; via the platform 2 car park entrance and the lift, via the entrance at the 'taxi end' of platform one, and through the cafe!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh Ive just noticed the post that the taxi end has been closed off,

And the Pumpkin entrance has been closed off too apparently. The P2 car park entrance is also to get barriers (I think someone said above).
 

thenorthern

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And the Pumpkin entrance has been closed off too apparently. The P2 car park entrance is also to get barriers (I think someone said above).

The Platform 2 barriers are going to be in the building on Platform 2, there is a large amount of building work taking place at the moment with Virgin Trains informing passengers not to worry as they aren't going anywhere.

There is going to be some retail space on Platform 2 after the re-building work its complete and there will be a new entrance hall complete with TVM although I don't think there will be a booking hall.

This is what it will look like when completed.
https://planning.stoke.gov.uk/onlin...283_LBC-PROPOSED_GROUND_FLOOR_PLAN-161971.pdf
 

Mugby

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It's a bit ironic really when you think about it, British Rail, a somewhat impoverished nationalised industry introduced open stations in an effort to reduce staff numbers and save money. Todays privatised railway which you would expect to be reducing staffing levels to the absolute minimum in order to generate more profit, is having to engage more staff to supervise gatelines.

Regarding Stoke-on Trent, I understand the ticket office closes quite early, is it 7pm? So will the barriers be manned after that time? If both Platforms 1 and 2 require independent gatelines, how many staff will be required to man them?
 

HowardGWR

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The Platform 2 barriers are going to be in the building on Platform 2, there is a large amount of building work taking place at the moment with Virgin Trains informing passengers not to worry as they aren't going anywhere.

There is going to be some retail space on Platform 2 after the re-building work its complete and there will be a new entrance hall complete with TVM although I don't think there will be a booking hall.

This is what it will look like when completed.
https://planning.stoke.gov.uk/onlin...283_LBC-PROPOSED_GROUND_FLOOR_PLAN-161971.pdf

Your link didn't work for me so I found the link to the set of pdfs.
https://planning.stoke.gov.uk/onlin...activeTab=documents&keyVal=_STOKE_DCAPR_64194

Hope that works.

edit> the client is shewn as Virgin; that surprised me, surely the owner NR would be the applicant?
 
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JaJaWa

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All stations with a ticket office have the ability to sell you a proper platform ticket.

The staff on the barriers always let me through if I am meeting someone off a train however.
 
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I actually received an email from Virgin this morning about the ticket barriers (all that is missing is salutations; it wouldn't all fit in my screen print)
 

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crehld

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People lived with ticket barriers/checks at even the smallest of stations until the early 80s, I'm a big supporter of well implemented ticket gates (i.e. enough of them to avoid queues, and no loophole exits that make them useless)

I'm sure we can all agree with that. Unfortunately the issues of enough barriers to avoid quese and locating them sensibly seem to be overlooked a lot of the time.
 

thenorthern

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The is a mouse problem apparently at Stoke-on-Trent station at the moment which means the First Class Lounge is closed.

Apparently Stafford and Macclesfield aren't getting barriers which surprises me but I suppose as most passengers from Stafford seem to travel to/from Stoke-on-Trent, Crewe, Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street the loss of revenue won't be that great if people try and fare dodge.

Looking at where else I wonder if London Midland will introduce barriers at Tamworth and Nuneaton in the near future as the usage levels are getting close to a level which barriers may be considered useful.
 

ag51ruk

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The is a mouse problem apparently at Stoke-on-Trent station at the moment which means the First Class Lounge is closed.

Apparently Stafford and Macclesfield aren't getting barriers which surprises me but I suppose as most passengers from Stafford seem to travel to/from Stoke-on-Trent, Crewe, Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street the loss of revenue won't be that great if people try and fare dodge.

Looking at where else I wonder if London Midland will introduce barriers at Tamworth and Nuneaton in the near future as the usage levels are getting close to a level which barriers may be considered useful.

An XC Train Manager told me that Macclesfield had been considered but the entrance was too narrow to gate.
 

thenorthern

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An XC Train Manager told me that Macclesfield had been considered but the entrance was too narrow to gate.

Virgin Trains and Northern have a large amount of revenue blocks there. As most passengers without tickets from Macclesfield travel to Stockport, Stoke-on-Trent or Manchester Piccadilly like Stafford the amount of revenue lost won't be that much as free riders will still have to pay at the destination.

All this talk has reminded me of when I was on a Bournemouth train from Manchester Piccadilly and there was a student on who was traveling to Oxford who didn't have a ticket and the conductor came and of course charged him the £72 fare. The student remarked "I was hoping you wen't going to check" but I thought who in there right mind would think they could get from Manchester to Oxford without a ticket or without seeing a conductor.
 

JaJaWa

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Virgin Trains and Northern have a large amount of revenue blocks there. As most passengers without tickets from Macclesfield travel to Stockport, Stoke-on-Trent or Manchester Piccadilly like Stafford the amount of revenue lost won't be that much as free riders will still have to pay at the destination.

All this talk has reminded me of when I was on a Bournemouth train from Manchester Piccadilly and there was a student on who was traveling to Oxford who didn't have a ticket and the conductor came and of course charged him the £72 fare. The student remarked "I was hoping you wen't going to check" but I thought who in there right mind would think they could get from Manchester to Oxford without a ticket or without seeing a conductor.

Opening himself up for prosecution with that comment
 

thenorthern

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I have checked the "Gate Expectations" leaflet that Virgin Trains have released and it says to go on the platform without a ticket (i.e. like a platform ticket) people should speak to the welcome hosts who can assist.
 
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