Ticket Barrier Scam or Innocent?

[westv]

When I was entering at Willesden Green this morning the chap in front of me tapped in went through the barrier and then immediately tapped out but carried on through to the platform.

I saw this same ploy come up as an item on some "fly on the wall" type documentary a while ago where a passenger was doing this repeatedly and ended up being "talked to".

Is this likely to have been a similar evasion scam or could there have been a more innocent explanation?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Don't know, but on my line, jumping off a metro train to "tap in" before jumping back on again is quite common

 

[Failed Unit]

Don't know, but on my line, jumping off a metro train to "tap in" before jumping back on again is quite common

I can see why that is needed. When Thameslink comes live i will need to do it at St Pancras. (Where previously crossing the road and entering Thameslink got the and achievement).

In the OPs example - I assume the need to do the same at thier destination. Surprised if this is a common pattern the card doesn’t get blacklisted.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

They may have been attempting a scam, but that particular loophole was fixed some time back.

 

[westv]

Ok. So someone couldn't tap in/out at the same station and then exit for free at a station with a non barriered exit?

 

[rebmcr]

Ok. So someone couldn't tap in/out at the same station and then exit for free at a station with a non barriered exit?

They could, but with two things to one day 'get' them:

1. Being checked by a roving RPI, or by one at an interchange blockade.
2. Long-term data flagging-up the Oyster or CPC for odd behaviour.

 

[87 027]

I'm sure MikeWh will be along with the detail, but as indicated above I think tapping in and out at the same station within a short time window now results in a maximum charge, which is why it was OK to broadcast the TV documentary showing the loophole because it had been closed by then

 

[PeterC]

I hadn't realised that that had been changed until I checked Mike's website today.

Maybe he was trying for a free trip and is in for a shock.

Or to be charitable maybe he had a separate travelcard but wanted to pick up a topup on that card for some reason, thinking that by touching out promptly there would still be no charge. (Unlikely but possible)

 

[yorkie]

When I was entering at Willesden Green this morning the chap in front of me tapped in went through the barrier and then immediately tapped out but carried on through to the platform.

Was this definitely with the same card?

 

[Mojo]

I hadn't realised that that had been changed until I checked Mike's website today.

Maybe he was trying for a free trip and is in for a shock.

It isn’t to generate a free ride, it’s to avoid paying for all of the zones travelled through. An example (as demonstrated on the TV show) is a customer with a zone 2-4 Travelcard. The customer touches in in zone 2 and then immediately out. This ends their journey, they then travel via zone 1 and touch out again in zone 2.

The page in question you are referring to relates to customers using Pay As You Go.

I'm sure MikeWh will be along with the detail, but as indicated above I think tapping in and out at the same station within a short time window now results in a maximum charge, which is why it was OK to broadcast the TV documentary showing the loophole because it had been closed by then

It definitely hadn’t been closed in 2012, when the show was originally broadcast.

 

[westv]

Was this definitely with the same card?

Yes, as far as I could see. The person was in front of me. They tapped in and the barrier opened. When I tapped in to go through I saw them turn round to tap out again but they didn't exit but continued to the platform.

 

[spinba11]

I’m 99% sure if you touch in and back out straight away and leave the paid area there is no charge.

 

[jon0844]

I’m 99% sure if you touch in and back out straight away and leave the paid area there is no charge.

I was definitely charged when I did it. I stupidly touched in when I had a paper ticket for travel and once realising I didn't want to 'pay twice', attempted to touch out to cancel it (but not exit).

I think there is a minimum time before you can tap out to stop this 'trick'. I am sure someone can say what it is.

 

[Starmill]

I’m 99% sure if you touch in and back out straight away and leave the paid area there is no charge.

Isn't it that case that there's no charge if you make another journey within a defined timer period?

 

[Mojo]

There is no charge if you have a Travelcard for that zone, which is why someone would do what they did.

Pay As You Go customers are charged for touching in and then immediately out.

 

[spinba11]

I think you have to make another journey for the no charge for that tap in/out to be applied.

 

[bluegoblin7]

0-2 minutes is charged as a maximum fare, but refunded if you touch in again at the same or different station, but not on a bus or tram.

3-30 minutes is charged as a minimum fare.

31+ minutes is charged as a maximum fare.

 

[Elecman]

I think you have to make another journey for the no charge for that tap in/out to be applied.

That must be true as I did that at Stoneridge Park, tapped in realised just as I did so I’d left my phone in a nearby cabinet, immediately tapped out left station retrieved phone and then tapped in again about 5 minutes later, only charged for the second tap,in and associated journey.