Ticket barrier audit trail - Leeds

[Concerneddad]

My son is being accused of not going through the barrier at Leeds station at the start of his journey. His ticket was damaged and when it was checked on the train he was initially accused of using an re-using an old ticket. He was taken off the train and interviewed by the police who refused to believe that his ticket went through the automated barriers in Leeds. He is now being accused of gaining access to the train without going through the barriers (not the exact words but close enough). He can prove that he made a payment to the train company the day before he travelled to Leeds and this payment was for the value of a return ticket, but the police have kept the ticket and he can't prove that he went through the barrier. It is my son's word against the opinion of a police officer

My question is - do the barriers have an audit trail and is there any way of making a request, as a member of the public, to check whether the ticket was used to go through the barrier. If so, how do I go about it and what information do I need; is it just the serial number of the ticket (if they have one), will they need the actual ticket, or could they link it to his payment card details?

Your help would be much appreciated - being a typical teenager he has left it until the last minute to tell me about this incident!

 

[bb21]

Hi and welcome.

Could you clarify what you mean by him being accused of "gaining access to the train without going through the barriers"? Something doesn't quite add up here, as this is a strange reason for prosecuting someone by itself without other aggravating factors. There is nothing wrong with not using a ticket through the barrier. All gatelines are required to have staff available if in operation so that those who need to use the manual gates, eg. people with mobility issues, those with lots of luggage in tow, those with prams, etc, can do so. Are there other factors involved which you are not being told, eg. pushing through barriers, double-gating, etc?

I think the allegation of reusing an old ticket is a more central and pressing issue here. What journey did he make and what price did he pay?

What stage is this matter at now? Have you received a letter? Has a court date been set? How long ago was the incident?

 

[island]

This is a rather curious one. There are plenty of reasons why a ticket might not have gone through the ticket barriers.

 

[Haywain]

My question is - do the barriers have an audit trail and is there any way of making a request, as a member of the public, to check whether the ticket was used to go through the barrier. If so, how do I go about it and what information do I need; is it just the serial number of the ticket (if they have one), will they need the actual ticket, or could they link it to his payment card details?

In a word, no. There is insufficient information encoded to the magnetic strip on the back of the ticket to achieve this. And a ticket may be rejected because that information on the mag strip is unreadable, in which case nothing could be recorded anyway. The function of gates is to assess whether each ticket presented is valid or not and nothing more. Even then they do on occasion reject perfectly valid tickets for numerous reasons, due to the complexity of programming.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Is it perhaps the case that he was accused of passing through the barrier otherwise than in the proper manner, i.e. having hopped over the top or similar? That is a crime, but getting on the train without going through the barrier isn't.

 

[Flamingo]

To answer the OP's question, as far as I know the only information that would be available is encoded in the strip on the ticket. There is no record of what went through what barriers (and the data collection, not to say surveillance implications of such information being collected and retained are huge!).

To echo the other posters, there is something strange about this situation though, and my spidy senses are tingling...

 

[DelayRepay]

I do believe that the ticket "remembers" the last time it went through a barrier so a ticket office can tell if it went through the barrier or not - but you need the actual ticket.

Not putting the ticket through the barrier is not a problem. Often at my station the barriers are left open. I think there might be a bit more to this accusation than your son has told you. Also I think it's unusual for the police to deal with a ticketing matter - normally rail staff would deal with it.

You are in the right place for help here and if you post a little more about the situation (without being too specific obviously) then I am sure someone will have some good advice.

How long ago did this happen? (approx, not the exact date)

 

[PermitToTravel]

Also I think it's unusual for the police to deal with a ticketing matter - normally rail staff would deal with it.

It wouldn't be surprising if the person in question wasn't sure if he was dealt with by a train company employee or a police officer.

If he did hop a barrier then it's quite likely that it will have been a police officer.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Would there not be CCTV at the station? It's a long shot, but it may prove the OP's son either innocent or guilty.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If the CCTV footage would be useful to the OP's son he could compel whoever operates the cameras (there will usually be signage stating) to send him a copy of all footage containing him (possibly for a small admin fee). There is a guide to this process here.

It does depend on what he's been accused of though - if he was caught on a train without a valid ticket then a video of him putting an orange piece of card into a barrier isn't likely to help

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree with those who fel that there is more detail required before reliable advice can be given, and there are some mysterious elements to your report of the incident - no least of which is your concern that this is "the last minute" - the last minute before what? How far has this matter progressed?

But it does appear that there are opportunities to clarify what happened, even if the response has to be dissapointing to you.

I must say that this reply does not seem helpful:

Would there not be CCTV at the station? It's a long shot, but it may prove the OP's son either innocent or guilty.

Whatever happened, there is absolutely no opportunity or need for your son to prove anything.
If it did become a Criminal matter (and we'd also need to know his age to advise on that outcome), then it would be entirely for the Prosecution to prove that whatever Offence they believe was committed did occur, and to do so 'beyond any reasonable doubt'. Your son's role would NOT be to prove anything, but if he was innocent, to demonstrate where the evidence presented against him was defective or unreliable.

 

[Deerfold]

Would there not be CCTV at the station? It's a long shot, but it may prove the OP's son either innocent or guilty.

Innocent or guilty of what?