Ticket always valid via shortest route?

[nedchester]

Just checking (I think I am right here)

Need to go to Warrington in a few weeks. Travelling at Peak time so:

Capenhurst to Warrington SDR is a rather pricey £10.20 (Any Permitted|)
Hooton to Warrington is a rather SDR is a more reasonable £6.30 (also Any Permitted)

National Rail claims the Hooton to Warrington is only valid via Liverpool (there is a 'route Liverpool fare at £7.20) However via Liverpool is 28 miles and via Chester is 26.5 miles so shorter.

Was thinking of getting at Hooton to Warrington ticket and then getting on at Capenhurst (perfectly valid and £3.90 better off!)

Can't see any reason for not doing this can anyone else?

 

[yorkie]

Those fares are absolutely completely and utterly bonkers, total and utter madness. Therefore, I am pleased to say that they fit in perfectly with the Simple Ticketing fare structure

It's totally completely valid and legitimate to get a ticket from Hooton and start "short", nothing wrong with it whatsoever, legally and certainly not morally!

Good find! You avoided being defrauded by the railways by a factor of around 40%.

 

[nedchester]

Those fares are absolutely completely and utterly bonkers, total and utter madness. Therefore, I am pleased to say that they fit in perfectly with the Simple Ticketing fare structure

It's totally completely valid and legitimate to get a ticket from Hooton and start "short", nothing wrong with it whatsoever, legally and certainly not morally!

Good find! You avoided being defrauded by the railways by a factor of around 40%.

Well I thought that £10 was rather pricey for such a short journey so did a bit of investigating.

Mind you the VFM gets better as I have a Megatrain ticket from Warrington to Glasgow on that day £2 return and over 8 hours in Glasgow!!!

 

[tony_mac]

I thought that via Ellesmere Port was shorter, and by more than 3 miles.

Also, try tickets to Earlestown instead of Warrington.

 

[wengeruk]

Technically the shortest route is via Ellesmere Port albeit only on a few trains a day. In practice I doubt anyone would have a problem with you going via Chester.

 

[John @ home]

Can't see any reason for not doing this can anyone else?

The shortest route is via Ellesmere Port, but that does not have a regular train service. It seems to me that Hooton - Chester - Warrington is the next shortest route, and therefore the shortest route served by a regular passenger service (National Routeing Guide page F1). It is therefore a permitted route.

Ticket selling sites powered by Atos Origin, such as eastcoast.co.uk, will sell you Hooton - Warrington route Any Permitted tickets with an itinerary via Chester. All Hooton - Warrington route Any Permitted tickets allow break of journey.

 

[nedchester]

Ellesmere Port is shorter but National Rail route you via Liverpool on the £6.30 whereas the Chester route is shorter!!!

Anyway I know what I am going to do now....

 

[John @ home]

Ellesmere Port is shorter but National Rail route you via Liverpool on the £6.30 whereas the Chester route is shorter!!!

The National Rail Journey Planner seems to have difficulty when there is no regular service over the shortest route and the next shortest route is not a mapped route. Normally I don't use it.

All the journey planners use approximations of the Routeing Guide. There are significant differences in detail which depend on the order in which rules are implemented. The family of sites I find most reliable and user-friendly is that powered by Atos Origin, including eastcoast.co.uk, londonmidland.com and southernrailway.com.

 

[nedchester]

The National Rail Journey Planner seems to have difficulty when there is no regular service over the shortest route and the next shortest route is not a mapped route. Normally I don't use it.

All the journey planners use approximations of the Routeing Guide. There are significant differences in detail which depend on the order in which rules are implemented. The family of sites I find most reliable and user-friendly is that powered by Atos Origin, including eastcoast.co.uk, londonmidland.com and southernrailway.com.

I usually use londonmidland.com anyhow but was just trying to make a point of what a farce the system is.

 

[yorkie]

Indeed it is a farce. I feel sorry for staff who have to sell tickets that are terribly priced, knowing they are not allowed to offer suitable alternatives (of course, some do - but at a risk as their boss may not be happy, and you can't expect them to take that risk).

'Splitting' the journey into a combination of tickets is now common knowledge (some people deny that it is - but, it really is, among occasional passengers, not just enthusiasts or regular commuters!) however it is rather less well known that buying further can be cheaper. I think that, as it happens more often due to differential price increases by different TOCs, the general public will become more aware of this, and start looking more for longer journeys that may be cheaper.

 

[tony_mac]

Personally, I would regard via Ellesmere Port as a regular service - just an infrequent one, there are 24 trains a week in each direction. But, as there is no guidance, who knows!

Anyway, that's irrelevant as the ticket is sold as being valid via Chester.

Although I would like to repeat the Earlestown suggestion, from either Capenhurst or Hooton.

 

[nedchester]

Personally, I would regard via Ellesmere Port as a regular service - just an infrequent one, there are 24 trains a week in each direction. But, as there is no guidance, who knows!

Anyway, that's irrelevant as the ticket is sold as being valid via Chester.

Although I would like to repeat the Earlestown suggestion, from either Capenhurst or Hooton.

Via Earlestown is 28.25 miles from Hooton so longer than Warrington Central!

 

[yorkie]

The fare from Capenhurst/Bache is just plain overpriced and a rip-off, there is no logic to it.

I don't think it's a case of you are supposed to go via a rare line, and there really isn't a justifiable 40% rise for going via Chester.

For evidence of this, look at Bache - Helsby, this is £4.40 SDR £3.40 CDR. That's 10p cheaper (SDR) and 30p cheaper (CDR) than Chester - Helsby! But Bache is basically in Chester and it is much shorter to go via Chester, yet this fare is cheaper than starting 'short' at Chester. I don't think Bache - Helsby is valid to avoid Chester anyway as they share RPs. So is there a huge premium to travel via Chester? No. The fares are just illogical.

 

[tony_mac]

Via Earlestown is 28.25 miles from Hooton so longer than Warrington Central!

D'oh! I didn't explain that very well, did I?!

Buy a ticket to Earlestown, and travel via Warrington!
The shortest route is still via Ellesmere Port, so it's just as valid as a ticket to Warrington, but cheaper. There is also no 'route Liverpool' fare to confuse matters!

 

[sheff1]

Easement 14 covers this, so no need to decide whether Ellesmere Port - Helsby is a regular service or not.

 

[tony_mac]

whoops, I didn't check the easements,
Thanks!

 

[penaltyfines]

There were a couple buying train tickets the other day in front of me, total was £180 something. I said they should ask for split tickets, gave them a couple of points to split at as a suggestion.

The cashier went mental saying "we don't have to offer that" etc etc and I joined in to argue.

Total cost, circa £75.

 

[nedchester]

D'oh! I didn't explain that very well, did I?!

Buy a ticket to Earlestown, and travel via Warrington!
The shortest route is still via Ellesmere Port, so it's just as valid as a ticket to Warrington, but cheaper. There is also no 'route Liverpool' fare to confuse matters!

Yes a Hooton to Earlestown is £5.45 for an SDR and valid via Chester.

The savings get better!!!!