Ticket advice required Woolwich/Welling

[SAPhil]

I am planning to travel from St Albans to Woolwich next Tuesday off peak but probably returning same day from Welling. I have a Senior Railcard. Is there a suitable ticket that will allow this or am I better off going back to Woolwich at the end of the day?

Phil

 

[Hadders]

A St Albans to Welling ticket will suffice. Finish short on the outward portion which is allowed.

 

[Class800]

I'm local to these station. If suggest finishing short, what is the route from St Albans to Welling via Woolwich. I'm sure going via Dartford isn't allowed.

 

[redreni]

Not saying this advice is wrong, but I'm not sure I understand it.

I'm seeing different fares for:
(a) travel via London Bridge and the Bexleyheath line from there (not passing through Woolwich), versus
(b) travel via Farringdon and Abbey Wood (passing through Woolwich but relying on a very infrequent service from Abbey Wood to Welling via Slade Green and Barnehurst).

If you use the Elizabeth Line I can't see a cheaper fare than the day travelcard?

It's a bit little bit cheaper if you go via London Bridge but I can't imagine it's permitted to go from London Bridge to Welling via Woolwich? You'd have to go out to zone 6 to Slade Green or Dartford to get back onto the Bexleyheath line, wouldn't you? Or double back from Woolwich to Blackheath.

Worth noting if you have a travelcard and/or a concessionary bus pass, buses are a more direct and more frequent option between Welling and Woolwich.

 

[Hadders]

I'm local to these station. If suggest finishing short, what is the route from St Albans to Welling via Woolwich. I'm sure going via Dartford isn't allowed.

Apologies, you are correct.

In that case a ticket to Dartford will be needed, unless a ticket to Slade Green is valid either route, which I’m not sure it is.

A Travelcard might work out cheaper.

I’ve amended my post.

 

[SAPhil]

Thanks for the replies. I think the Dartford ticket works out slightly cheaper than the travelcard option as I have an ENCTS pass. I don't really want to travel back from Welling to Woolwich at the end of the day which would obviously be the cheapest option!

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks for the replies. I think the Dartford ticket works out slightly cheaper than the travelcard option as I have an ENCTS pass. I don't really want to travel back from Welling to Woolwich at the end of the day which would obviously be the cheapest option!

I've just checked NRE and St Albans to Slade Green is valid via Welling as well as Woolwich, and should be slightly cheaper than Dartford.

 

[SAPhil]

I've just checked NRE and St Albans to Slade Green is valid via Welling as well as Woolwich, and should be slightly cheaper than Dartford.

That will do nicely - it's the same price as a return to Woolwich!
Thanks.

 

[hkstudent]

That will do nicely - it's the same price as a return to Woolwich!
Thanks.

Yes, anything north of the river to Woolwich - Slade Green, Welling - Barnehurst and Sidcup - Crayford are in the same price.

And according to negative easement in the permitted route guide (which blocks circular travel of most stations), only the end of each line (slade green, barnehurst, crayford) would allow travel on other lines (but not via Dartford).

So, getting tickets to either slade green or barnehurst is fine. Getting tickets to Welling / Woolwich would not be valid to any.

 

[redreni]

Yes, anything north of the river to Woolwich - Slade Green, Welling - Barnehurst and Sidcup - Crayford are in the same price.

And according to negative easement in the permitted route guide (which blocks circular travel of most stations), only the end of each line (slade green, barnehurst, crayford) would allow travel on other lines (but not via Dartford).

So, getting tickets to either slade green or barnehurst is fine. Getting tickets to Welling / Woolwich would not be valid to any.

Is the Slade Green ticket valid for travel via Farringdon and Woolwich (EL), out of interest?

Would it have a Maltese cross on it or is it NR only via London Bridge?

The Elizabeth Line is substantially quicker between Farringdon and Woolwich even than the direct Thameslink service, even accounting for the time taken to change at Farringdon.

If it is a Maltese cross ticket, would break of journey/stopping short at Woolwich (EL) be an issue? I suppose you could say you were just changing trains on your way to Slade Green, but they might want to know why you weren't changing at Abbey Wood.

 

[miklcct]

It's + Any Permitted so there will be no issue at all, and Elizabeth line is National Rail so you can break and resume the journey there.

 

[Hadders]

Is the Slade Green ticket valid for travel via Farringdon and Woolwich (EL), out of interest?

Would it have a Maltese cross on it or is it NR only via London Bridge?

The Elizabeth Line is substantially quicker between Farringdon and Woolwich even than the direct Thameslink service, even accounting for the time taken to change at Farringdon.

If it is a Maltese cross ticket, would break of journey/stopping short at Woolwich (EL) be an issue? I suppose you could say you were just changing trains on your way to Slade Green, but they might want to know why you weren't changing at Abbey Wood.

Yes this is fine. Woolwich Elizabeth Line is a valid interchange station for cross London journeys. Your ticket is routed +Any Permitted indicating that a cross London journey is included.

 

[redreni]

It's + Any Permitted so there will be no issue at all, and Elizabeth line is National Rail so you can break and resume the journey there.

Great, thanks.

Can you please tell TfL to tell their gateline staff at Canary Wharf, Tottenham Court Road and Bond Street that?

They seem pretty firmly of the view that, on the Paddington to Abbey Wood section, break of journey is not permitted as it is a cross-London transfer and they don't regard it as NR for ticketing purposes. I agree Woolwich is probably fine because it's a valid interchange station (albeit not where 99% of people would change if heading to stations east of Abbey Wood). I wouldn't be massively surprised to encounter trouble at the gateline doing this, though.

 

[Hadders]

Great, thanks.

Can you please tell TfL to tell their gateline staff at Canary Wharf, Tottenham Court Road and Bond Street that?

If you’re going to break a National Rail journey at any of those stations I’d exit and re-enter via an Elizabeth Line ticket hall rather than an Underground one.

 

[Class800]

I've never had issues stopping short at Woolwich EL. Don't want to say exactly what tickets I did it on! Occasionally doesn't work gate but staff just waved through

 

[hkstudent]

If you’re going to break a National Rail journey at any of those stations I’d exit and re-enter via an Elizabeth Line ticket hall rather than an Underground one.

Not likely to make major difference as they are also staffed by London Underground, not MTR-Crossrail

 

[Haywain]

Great, thanks.

Can you please tell TfL to tell their gateline staff at Canary Wharf, Tottenham Court Road and Bond Street that?

They seem pretty firmly of the view that, on the Paddington to Abbey Wood section, break of journey is not permitted as it is a cross-London transfer and they don't regard it as NR for ticketing purposes. I agree Woolwich is probably fine because it's a valid interchange station (albeit not where 99% of people would change if heading to stations east of Abbey Wood). I wouldn't be massively surprised to encounter trouble at the gateline doing this, though.

That's not relevant to the OP though, is it? They haven't mentioned wanting to break the journey.

 

[redreni]

That's not relevant to the OP though, is it? They haven't mentioned wanting to break the journey.

No but stopping short at Woolwich on the outbound very much the plan, I think. I don't know which way the OP intends to go, so not sure if it would be at Woolwich or Woolwich Arsenal.

 

[Hadders]

No but stopping short at Woolwich on the outbound very much the plan, I think.

I might dig out the old thread about break of journey on EL core more generally as it will become more important for me if day travelcards are withdrawn.

Woolwich EL is a recognised interchange station for tickets bearing the Maltese Cross so you shouldn’t encounter issues there.

 

[redreni]

Woolwich EL is a recognised interchange station for tickets bearing the Maltese Cross so you shouldn’t encounter issues there.

Yes, understood, thank you!

 

[SAPhil]

No but stopping short at Woolwich on the outbound very much the plan, I think. I don't know which way the OP intends to go, so not sure if it would be at Woolwich or Woolwich Arsenal.

As it happens I was thinking about changing at Farringdon as the direct service isn't so convenient timewise! Good to know that it shouldn't be a problem.