Through trains at Ormskirk

[Bertie the bus]

Thanks all, yeah this is where my limited knowledge comes in, there definitely was at one point in time a line that avoided the 2 sets of buffers and connected the 2 networks but its gone now then.

You don't need local knowledge, just the ability to use Google Maps. This view quite clearly shows there is no loop - https://maps.app.goo.gl/pfa5vynEEyKd1Ri19.

 

[childwallblues]

An extremely good reason NOT to do this is imported delay. Though there is a possibility it will be looked at using battery units at some point.

There is a direct service from Preston to Liverpool via Wigan so no such service *needs* to run this way.

Yes there is a direct service from Preston to Lime Street but that does not serve the needs of North Merseyside/South Lancashire who probably find it quicker to drive on the grid locked A59.

 

[WAO]

The Liverpool electrics (502's) used to terminate in the South East bay leaving the up and down lines clear, (shown clearly with track lifted in #15).

If this were reinstated, The Preston trains could remain terminating in the main platform, without buffer stops and allow potential through running, (as should have been done at Headbolt Lane) either by battery 777's (the whole point of the batteries!) or even running the DMU to Sandhills where there is a reversing siding and frequent onward connections.

Merseyside and W Lancs do seem to lack enterprise unless someone else is paying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The bay was only 5 car and there isn't really room to lengthen it. It (and its bridge arch) also now play host to the path from the bus station. So this is a non-starter.

However, if any through service was to operate, I can't imagine it would be anything other than an extension once an hour of the existing Merseyrail service (as already mentioned the fast service runs via Wigan and I can see no benefit to changing that), this being the case there is no need for a separate bay, it would simply enter the station in its relevant timetable slot in both directions.

 

[yorksrob]

Its a shame the platform building and canopy didn't survive at Burscough junction. Facilities are a bit sparse for a reasonably sized settlement.

 

[Elecman]

Is the track even connected? Google maps satellite view suggests not and the alignment being different.

No there is no continuity of the rails

 

[L+Y]

The station was altered to have two sets of buffer stops backing onto each other after 4 May 1970, possibly 28 June that year when it was singled to Midge Hall. An emergency connection around the buffer stops was retained until sometime before November 1991. I have a vague feeling that the connection could be used as a rather convoluted route to Fazakerley PW depot.

Sources: Liverpool & Manchester Railway Atlas and Baker (Second Edition).

The caption to a photo on Flickr says that the buffer stops were installed on 28 June 1970. The Station box was closed on 25 October 1970 and the electrics started to use the main platform, rather than the Liverpool bay, on the same date. The emergency connection was closed on 9 May 1987.

The last through passenger trains ran on 3rd May 1970- the Liverpool Exchange to Glasgow expresses, which stopped at Ormskirk southbound only by this point. Local passenger services to Preston had been terminating at Ormskirk since October 1969.

The line was partitioned as you say on 28th June 1970, at the same time as singling north of Ormskirk. I've a photo of the very last train to run through- a split box class 40 on a track panel train from Fazakerley to the WCML.

Thereafter the emergency loop was used for freight on a few emergency occasions (at least once in 1971 and once in 1973) and passenger workings in October 1972 in connection with the commissioning of Warrington Power Box. I've heard about other workings later on to transport 502 units to Horwich works for overhaul- but I've no photos of firm information about this. Does anybody know?

There is still the ability to pass at Rufford, and this is generally used on 'Ladies' Day' and Grand National day, when Northern typically run two additional Preston-Ormskirk trips in the late morning (returning ECS) and two additional Ormskirk-Preston services after the surviving horses are on their way home.

[Later Edit: Found a photo (my own) taken on 'Ladies' Day' Friday 14 April 2023. 156415 passing 150225 at Rufford. Attached below]

View attachment 183871

That's me taking a photo at the far end of the platform!

Its a shame the platform building and canopy didn't survive at Burscough junction. Facilities are a bit sparse for a reasonably sized settlement.

They survived a bit later at BCJ than at Rufford (or in railway use at Croston)- at least until 1973 and I think possibly as late as 1975. In fact, the buildings received BR corporate signage, but were demolished anyway! It's a shame, because Burscough Junction looks to have been an attractive station building. Another of those that almost made it.

 

[WAO]

The bay was only 5 car and there isn't really room to lengthen it. It (and its bridge arch) also now play host to the path from the bus station. So this is a non-starter.

However, if any through service was to operate, I can't imagine it would be anything other than an extension once an hour of the existing Merseyrail service (as already mentioned the fast service runs via Wigan and I can see no benefit to changing that), this being the case there is no need for a separate bay, it would simply enter the station in its relevant timetable slot in both directions.

There's always the bay at the northern end, if the 50 or so car park spaces could be relocated.

Nevertheless, your idea of a through service is clearly the best.

A shame about the lost station buildings, iconic of the constituents of the L&YR. They were nicely detailed and gave an air of quality to train travel.

WAO

 

[Springs Branch]

Another option for extending Merseyrail beyond Ormskirk, which crops up periodically, involves reinstating the south curve to Burscough Bridge and running through trains between Ormskirk and Southport.

I'm not sure whether this would then require the Preston - Ormskirk DMUs to be truncated at Burscough Junction (independently to the Merseyrail track) to keep signalling as simple as possible.

 

[WAO]

There were an number of options for this: extending the dc (now battery) units via the south curve to B Bridge and bringing in the Preston DMU via the north curve. The case against is its addition of an expensive complex junction to a minor, subsidised line (look at the entries and exits for Rufford and Croston) and the limitations of the existing two platform station needing to be kept clear for the Southport services. An alternative was a new interchange where the lines physically cross, in the middle of a field a few hundred yards from the bridge. Just three platforms and two ramps with no expensive track and signalling; with a car park, you could have a "Liverpool North Parkway"!

Whatever comes or doesn't of this, it is a no-brainer to use the 777's on the Preston service; 18 miles is a convenient run on batteries. That would improve use!

I remember seeing dining cars (amongst other regional services) in Exchange Station, serving this line directly to Scotland - what a come down, a planned decline for Lancashire.

WAO

 

[Bletchleyite]

I remember seeing dining cars (amongst other regional services) in Exchange Station, serving this line directly to Scotland - what a come down, a planned decline for Lancashire.

Is it, though? 4tph on Merseyrail and 1tph (though it needs a Sunday service) on the rural extension is really pretty good to be honest. The modern clockface railway is more useful than the romantic "a few trains a day when the railway felt like it" of the past, however rose tinted your spectacles may be.

 

[WAO]

It's not nostalgia; it's sorrow over the economic decay of the area served by the L&Y. Yes, Birkdale in Southport and Ruff Lane in Ormskirk are as smart as ever but opportunity has shrunk for many, represented by declining rail. Yes, we do have frequent clockface services generally; I would even contend that Merseyrail (a model for others?) saved Liverpool from Geoffrey Howe's suggested free-fall economic decline. Unfortunately it ends roughly at the Regional boundaries, like Brodie's Liverpool dual carriageways, limiting horizons.

I will however clean my spectacles more thoroughly.

WAO

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not nostalgia; it's sorrow over the economic decay of the area served by the L&Y. Yes, Birkdale in Southport and Ruff Lane in Ormskirk are as smart as ever but opportunity has shrunk for many, represented by declining rail.

Ormskirk town centre has certainly declined, but so have many small to medium towns. In its place Burscough (not hampered by its two DMU railways) seems to have grown; I don't doubt that if Merseyrail was extended its house prices would go through the roof and it might start to look very much like Liverpool's Chorlton or something.

I do think it strange that the Merseyside boundary didn't take in Ormskirk and Skelmersdale yet did take in Southport, though, and I think things may have developed differently if it had. But there are examples of that sort of thing all over the place, such as Dinting/Glossop/Hadfield being outside Greater Manchester and Watford being outside Greater London.

 

[yorksrob]

Burscough is a bit of a tourist destination (to Martin Mere) and of course is well connected by the Manchester Southport line as well, so it's no surprise that its doing alright.

Reinstating the curves and having BB as an interchange doesn't seem a bad idea !

 

[L+Y]

I do think it strange that the Merseyside boundary didn't take in Ormskirk and Skelmersdale yet did take in Southport, though, and I think things may have developed differently if it had.

As I understand it, there were shenanigans linked to the last round of local Government reorganisation in the area in the late 60s. The initial plans proposed moving Skelmersdale to Merseyside and leaving Southport in West Lancashire, but this was adjusted as part of a plan to create what was envisaged as a rock-solid Conservative Council in Sefton.

Anyhow, slightly off topic!