Through trains at Ormskirk

[DR18037]

Good evening all,

The random thought crossed my mind, I've dont know of any regular services to continue off the Merseyside of Ormskirk into the Preston side or vice versa. Is there any freight service im missing or is it disused? My knowledge of the line is limited due to not being local but I know there is/was a loop track bypassing the buffers.

Any help would be appreciated

 

[mathstrains19]

I don't know about the past, but there is currently no through route at Ormskirk - it's just facing buffer stops.

 

[LowLevel]

It used to be a through station. There's been no connection for decades though and the lines either side are effectively totally different railway lines controlled from different signalboxes.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It used to be a through station. There's been no connection for decades though and the lines either side are effectively totally different railway lines controlled from different signalboxes.

Last through trains in 1970?

 

[DR18037]

Thanks all, yeah this is where my limited knowledge comes in, there definitely was at one point in time a line that avoided the 2 sets of buffers and connected the 2 networks but its gone now then.

 

[Gloster]

The station was altered to have two sets of buffer stops backing onto each other after 4 May 1970, possibly 28 June that year when it was singled to Midge Hall. An emergency connection around the buffer stops was retained until sometime before November 1991. I have a vague feeling that the connection could be used as a rather convoluted route to Fazakerley PW depot.

Sources: Liverpool & Manchester Railway Atlas and Baker (Second Edition).

 

[railrambler]

It’s totally bonkers ! In this day and age with supposedly integrated transport why should you have to get off a Northern train and have to walk 30 metres to wait for a Merseyrail train to continue your journey? Can’t diesel trains run all the way to the Pool ???

 

[Liverpool 507]

It’s totally bonkers ! In this day and age with supposedly integrated transport why should you have to get off a Northern train and have to walk 30 metres to wait for a Merseyrail train to continue your journey? Can’t diesel trains run all the way to the Pool ???

No, you can’t have diesel trains underground. Merseyrail services go underground in to Liverpool Central before Moorfields.

 

[billio]

I think the more bonkers aspect of this is that the Merseyrail service can't be extended to Preston (ans also to Wigan). Perhaps some battery trains might solve this.

 

[railrambler]

No, you can’t have diesel trains underground. Merseyrail services go underground in to Liverpool Central before Moorfields.

Thanks for correcting me 507 - and I thought I knew it all !!!

 

[Zomboid]

I think the more bonkers aspect of this is that the Merseyrail service can't be extended to Preston (ans also to Wigan). Perhaps some battery trains might solve this.

This is where things should be going. If Merseyrail trains can get to Chester and Southport then Wigan and Preston should be possible, too.

 

[cin88]

As I used to jokingly say to Liverpool bound passengers when I was signalling at Rufford. "I'd get one hell of a shock if a Merseyrail train turned up here, and probably one hell of a grilling from the boss!"

The idea of taking the buffers out and using battery units, with trains passing at Rufford is mooted quite often but has never gotten further than the pre meeting for the meeting about the meeting to discuss the meeting about the idea, as far as i'm aware anyway. Putting Burscough Junction back in also gets the same treatment.

 

[Freightmaster]

Good evening all,

The random thought crossed my mind, I've dont know of any regular services to continue off the Merseyside of Ormskirk into the Preston side or vice versa. Is there any freight service im missing or is it disused? My knowledge of the line is limited due to not being local but I know there is/was a loop track bypassing the buffers.

Any help would be appreciated

You might be interested in this old thread:

Merseyrail buffer stops at Kirkby, Ormskirk and Ellesmere Port

Why is there a through line at Ellesmere Port but buffer stops at Ormskirk and Kirkby?

www.railforums.co.uk

I don't know about the past, but there is currently no through route at Ormskirk - it's just facing buffer stops.

This is what it looks like with a train in each 'half' of the platform:

MARK

 

[Pnerick81]

As I used to jokingly say to Liverpool bound passengers when I was signalling at Rufford. "I'd get one hell of a shock if a Merseyrail train turned up here, and probably one hell of a grilling from the boss!"

The idea of taking the buffers out and using battery units, with trains passing at Rufford is mooted quite often but has never gotten further than the pre meeting for the meeting about the meeting to discuss the meeting about the idea, as far as i'm aware anyway. Putting Burscough Junction back in also gets the same treatment.

My father also was a signalman on this line . On the relief . Worked midge hall and rufford . First the old box with the big wheel and then onto the platform . Shame they don’t have the passing trains at rufford anymore

 

[Springs Branch]

This image shows the situation at Ormskirk in 1973 - after all through trains between Liverpool Exchange & Preston had ended, but with the hardly-used, unelectrified connection through the former northbound platform still in place.

From Whatlep, posted under CC BY-SA 2.0 licence via Wikimedia Commons.

Another historical snippet - which I wasn't aware of until recently - was that the third rail once extended a little to the north of Ormskirk station as far as an electrified stabling siding just beyond the junction with the Skelmersdale - Rainford Junction branch. As illustrated in this image from the 1960s
on the Harvey Scowcroft Collection hosted by Nigel Valentine, on Flickr.
(Images show two scenes with Class 502 EMUS around Ormskirk, together with historic track layout)

 

[AntoniC]

I think the more bonkers aspect of this is that the Merseyrail service can't be extended to Preston (ans also to Wigan). Perhaps some battery trains might solve this.

Merseyrail wont extend to Preston as its out of the Mersey Metro Area ans therefore won`t pay for it

 

[norbitonflyer]

Merseyrail wont extend to Preston as its out of the Mersey Metro Area ans therefore won`t pay for it

Didn't stop them extending to Chester...........

 

[station_road]

Didn't stop them extending to Chester...........

Or the proposed extension onto the Wrexham line at Bidston

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Or the proposed extension onto the Wrexham line at Bidston

Is Merseyrail actually pushing for that one or is that proposal coming exclusively from TfW? (That's a genuine question - I don't know the answer)

 

[Taunton]

The station was altered to have two sets of buffer stops backing onto each other after 4 May 1970, possibly 28 June that year when it was singled to Midge Hall. An emergency connection around the buffer stops was retained until sometime before November 1991. I have a vague feeling that the connection could be used as a rather convoluted route to Fazakerley PW depot.

I remember going through there (changing trains) around 1977-78. There was a track which looped around between the two end-to-end single line routes via the onetime Down platform. It was heavily rusted and had an old wooden sleeper tied across it.

 

[EuxtonNeutral]

I think the more bonkers aspect of this is that the Merseyrail service can't be extended to Preston (ans also to Wigan). Perhaps some battery trains might solve this.

This is on the cards I believe - Steve Rotherham has hinted at the possibility.

Merseyrail battery train project could mean Wrexham and Preston services

Groundbreaking technology means the Merseyrail network could expand throughout the Liverpool City region and further afield

www.railadvent.co.uk

From the rail advent article:

‘Metro Mayer Steve Rotherham is on a mission to build a ‘Merseyrail for All’ with an initial focus on the city region, and progress has been made for this vision following the successful testing of the new trains within the Liverpool City Region.

The technology could make it possible for Merseyrail to extend into all six city regions, including Rainhill in St. Helens, Woodchurch on the Wirral and Widnes in Halton.

The new fleet of trains could also run services as far away as Preston, Skelmersdale, Wrexham, Warrington and Runcorn, creating an impressive transport network.’

 

[Gloster]

The caption to a photo on Flickr says that the buffer stops were installed on 28 June 1970. The Station box was closed on 25 October 1970 and the electrics started to use the main platform, rather than the Liverpool bay, on the same date. The emergency connection was closed on 9 May 1987.

 

[Llandudno]

This is on the cards I believe - Steve Rotherham has hinted at the possibility.

Merseyrail battery train project could mean Wrexham and Preston services

Groundbreaking technology means the Merseyrail network could expand throughout the Liverpool City region and further afield

www.railadvent.co.uk

From the rail advent article:

‘Metro Mayer Steve Rotherham is on a mission to build a ‘Merseyrail for All’ with an initial focus on the city region, and progress has been made for this vision following the successful testing of the new trains within the Liverpool City Region.

The technology could make it possible for Merseyrail to extend into all six city regions, including Rainhill in St. Helens, Woodchurch on the Wirral and Widnes in Halton.

The new fleet of trains could also run services as far away as Preston, Skelmersdale, Wrexham, Warrington and Runcorn, creating an impressive transport network.’

The new fleet of 777s will be life expired before they get anywhere near Preston, Skelmersdale, Warrington, Runcorn, Rainhill and in all probability Wrexham!

More Pipedream stuff that won’t happen!

 

[Djgr]

Or the proposed extension onto the Wrexham line at Bidston

In general terms, if it is outside of the Liverpool City Region, it requires cooperation and financial contribution from the relevant neighbouring authority.

In the case of electrification to Chester/Ellesmere Port in the 1990s this was Cheshire county. In the case of the Borderlands line in 2025, the Welsh government are showing commitment (including money).

In the case of Ormskirk to Preston, Ormskirk to Southport, Headbolt Lane towards Wigan etc I don't see this from anything Lancashire-y

 

[TheSel]

My father also was a signalman on this line . On the relief . Worked midge hall and rufford . First the old box with the big wheel and then onto the platform . Shame they don’t have the passing trains at rufford anymore

There is still the ability to pass at Rufford, and this is generally used on 'Ladies' Day' and Grand National day, when Northern typically run two additional Preston-Ormskirk trips in the late morning (returning ECS) and two additional Ormskirk-Preston services after the surviving horses are on their way home.

[Later Edit: Found a photo (my own) taken on 'Ladies' Day' Friday 14 April 2023. 156415 passing 150225 at Rufford. Attached below]

 

[childwallblues]

I can remember steam on the line. n the early sixties I boarded a Glasgow to Liverpool Exchange service at Ormskirk hauled by 72000 Clan Buchanan!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s totally bonkers ! In this day and age with supposedly integrated transport why should you have to get off a Northern train and have to walk 30 metres to wait for a Merseyrail train to continue your journey? Can’t diesel trains run all the way to the Pool ???

An extremely good reason NOT to do this is imported delay. Though there is a possibility it will be looked at using battery units at some point.

There is a direct service from Preston to Liverpool via Wigan so no such service *needs* to run this way.

 

[james_the_xv]

Is the track even connected? Google maps satellite view suggests not and the alignment being different.

 

[Gloster]

Is the track even connected? Google maps satellite view suggests not and the alignment being different.

See #2.

 

[cin88]

There is still the ability to pass at Rufford, and this is generally used on 'Ladies' Day' and Grand National day, when Northern typically run two additional Preston-Ormskirk trips in the late morning (returning ECS) and two additional Ormskirk-Preston services after the surviving horses are on their way home.

The loop also gets used for the railhead treatment train during the leaf fall season, it was always later in the evening during my tenure.