Through Train Rule Question

[horizonflame]

Following forum advice last month I travelled Clapham Junction - Woking with BOJ at Staines using the 'Through Trains Rule'. There were no tickets check onboard and the barriers on one platform at Staines were open so I wasn't challenged on route validity.

I've been getting to grips with the Routing Guide. I can see the only mapped route on map WX is via Wimbledon and Surbiton. Now there are rare 'direct' trains which is the basis of using the via Staines route but I note the rule states that 'the route may not be permitted if a change of train is necessary to complete the journey'.

I will be changing trains at Staines regardless of the BOJ onto a service to Weybridge then onto Woking. Is the general consensus of here that this route can be considered permitted although I am not on board one of the direct trains?

 

[bb21]

The through train rule does exactly what it says on the tin. Look at in an alternative way - it does not validate the route; it merely validates that particular service.

If you are not on a through train then your route is not valid unless it satisfies one of the other qualifying criteria for a permitted route.

 

[mikeg]

The through train rule does exactly what it says on the tin. Look at in an alternative way - it does not validate the route; it merely validates that particular service.

If you are not on a through train then your route is not valid unless it satisfies one of the other qualifying criteria for a permitted route.

I'd like to clarify something here: What if the train is a through train to the nearest routeing point, taking a non-permitted route and you wish to travel on a branch line from thereon? Or the reverse?

I can think of an example: Whitby to Thirsk via Darlington on the last service. It is not permitted to go via Darlington on a Whitby to Thirsk ticket. However the last service to Thirsk from Middlesbrough goes via Darlington. If I held a Midddlesbrough to Thirsk ticket and travelled on this service from only Middlesbrough, it's okay as it's a through train. But what about travelling from Whitby and changing onto this service? Would this route then not be permitted under the rules of the Routeing Guide?



As far as I know this route is accepted by guards and shown by all booking engines provided it is a through train from Middlesbrough to Thirsk via Darlington, and is not permitted by guards or booking engines if I want to change at Darlington during the day. Is this a case of the Routeing Guide being illogical and customary acceptance of the ticket anyway? Or is it actually permitted?

Apologies if this does not carry enough similarity to the situation of the OP, I may have misread the OP's post but isn't this a similar situation where the route has effectively been validated?

Edit: Just re-read the OP's post and noticed the difference. My question is much different it would seem. The OP wishes to travel via a non-permitted route on nothing resembling a through train, whereas mine is a through train from the appropriate routeing point.

 

[John @ home]

Is the general consensus of here that this route can be considered permitted although I am not on board one of the direct trains?

No. To take advantage of the through trains rule, you must travel on a through train between the origin to the destination printed on the ticket.

A through train is advertised in the passenger railway timetable as a direct service which offers travel between a customer’s origin station and final destination, as printed on the ticket for the journey being made.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/RSPDocuments/instructions.pdf

What if the train is a through train to the nearest routeing point, taking a non-permitted route and you wish to travel on a branch line from thereon? Or the reverse?

This is not permitted by the through trains rule.

the last service to Thirsk from Middlesbrough goes via Darlington. If I held a Midddlesbrough to Thirsk ticket and travelled on this service from only Middlesbrough, it's okay as it's a through train. But what about travelling from Whitby and changing onto this service? Would this route then not be permitted under the rules of the Routeing Guide?

The journey planners show that a £22.60 CDR Thirsk - Whitby route Any Permitted ticket may be used on:

• 1915 Whitby - Middlesborough 2041
• 2150 Middlesborugh - Darlington - Thirsk 2238

I would use this as evidence that the route is permitted, but it's not permitted by the through trains rule.