Through tickets to Belfast

[4SRKT]

I understand you can buy through tickets from any UK station to Belfast, for very attractive prices. Does anyone here know much about them? Particularly I'd like to know answers to the following three questions:

1) Can you buy similar tickets FROM Belfast to any UK station?
2) Are these tickets valid via either Stranraer or Holyhead (at least from stations, such as in the North of England, where either of these could be deemed reasonable routes)?
3) Are these open tickets, in the sense that you don't have to use specified trains, and can break the journey?

A related enquiry for those in the know is if you get off the boat at Holyhead at 01:00 in the morning, are you allowed to hang about the terminal or railway station until the trains start running? I'd like to crash somewhere and wait for the 05:32 bodysnatcher. I don't however want to roam the streets of Holyhead for 4-5 hours!

Loads of knowledgeable folk on here, so I look forward to your answers!

 

[yorkie]

1) You can buy them within the UK to be issued as a single from Belfast, however I am unsure if you can actually buy them from within NI. The other day Nick W told me he thought that it was not possible.

2) The fares are zonal. A single from Belfast via Stranraer is a maximum of £46.00 and this is to be competitive with airlines. However if you extend the journey at the other end beyond Belfast NI, then again it is zonal so the price will increase.

If you want to return via Holyhead then the produce is priced as a Dublin ticket (routed HLYHD IRISHF CIV) with the zonal add-on included for Belfast.

So if you have a railcard, then it is cheaper to go via Stranrear as railcard discounts are given on that route (for selected railcards), however they are not available for the Dublin-Holyhead route. However if you do not have a railcard then the Dublin route is marginally cheaper for many destinations but, again, being zonal it does depend. (e.g. for York it is cheaper via Stranraer, but for Penznace it is cheaper via Holyhead - but there is not much in it).

3) The term "open" appears to have changed in recent years with thetrainline using it to refer to tickets that are not train-specific, as opposed to the previous use as a ticket that is valid for 1 month. Anyway they are "open" from the point of view that you can use any train and the return portion is valid for 1 month but if you are getting singles then you need to specify the return date and the ticket is then not valid for 1 month. Break of journey appears to be allowed "on the rail leg only". So don't consider jumping ship - that aint allowed

As for hanging around Holyhead, there are arrivals as late as 02:15, and the first train is 04:28. I don't know if the station is locked or not between those times, but I'd doubt it. I am sure someone here will know. I've never got a night ferry before.

 

[4SRKT]

Thanks!

Basically what I want to do is:

1) Travel outbound from Portadown to Shipley, breaking the journey in Dublin.
2) About 10 days later return from Shipley to Belfast travelling via Stranraer

Ideally I'd prefer to book it as a return ticket rather than two singles, because I presume the Belfast > Shipley single would not permit me to break in Dublin overnight.

Alternatively I can buy a Dublin > Shipley single and a Shipley > Belfast single. I can then buy an advance single from Portadown > Dublin off NIR's website for a few quid and remove the problem of breaking overnight in Dublin.

Do you think this will work?

The National Rail Equiries website is no use. It declares in its 'Cheapest Fare Finder' that a single from Shipley to Belfast is available from both Scotrail (presumabley via Stranraer) and Arriva (presumably via Holyhead), both for £40 but when you go to get further details it says it can't find any suitable trains. This seems odd if the fare is open.

Anyway, I was well aware of this fare, and presumably can stroll into the booking office at Shipley and request a return from Belfast to Shipley or the two singles whenever I like.

 

[yorkie]

You're weclome

I would split the ticket at Dublin, as you say it removes the potential issue with BOJ and the ticket only being valid for 1 day (of course you can continue into the next day but then there are issues with resuming by 1200, and "no further break allowed" and the later it gets the more questions may be asked), given that the difference in fares is about £13, if you can get a single from Portadown to Dublin for anything less than £13 then you are in fact saving money anyway.

I'm surprised NRES website actually shows these fares at all! Not surprised it doesn't show an actual itinerary, but even if it did it can't sell tickets anyway.

 

[janb]

I don't know what information the NRES site normally shows, but at the minute it doesn't surprise because the times for various ferry routes have disappeared from the NRS. At least this data loss has coincided with the withdrawal of railsail (through booking offices anyway) on at least some routes given the current ash situation.

 

[yorkie]

At least this data loss has coincided with the withdrawal of railsail (through booking offices anyway) on at least some routes given the current ash situation.

Are you saying the TOCs have temporarily withdrawn through tickets, forcing passengers to pay considerably more? If so, this will do them no favours at all, and not win any custom back from airlines.

Or are you saying that the booking offices can't do it and it temporarily has to be done by an alternative method?

 

[jamesontheroad]

1) Can you buy similar tickets FROM Belfast to any UK station?

Yes. And if you're in NI, NI Railways Travel (the agency that sells package holidays by train) can sell NR tickets, but they add a £1.20 booking fee. Their travel agency is in Belfast Great Victoria Street station, on the corridor between the NIR ticket office and the bus stances. Call 028 9024 2420

RailEasy should be able to sell them, but I've had problems with their website and they charge more in fees.

 

[4SRKT]

Thanks for all your help folks. You can get an advance single from Portadown to Dublin for £13.99, so that's fine. As these are just normal railway tickets, I ought to be able to buy them at any staffed station. There's a young chap who works at Shipley booking office who is also a member of the K&WVRPS and a proper rail enthusiast. Therefore not the sort of clown who won't understand what I'm asking for. I'll queue at his window when I go! Some of the numpties down there would go into total meltdown if asked for a single from Dublin to Saltaire (which is a bargain at £28.50 BTW. I wonder why anyone living in North Wales ever buys any other kind of ticket).

 

[jamesontheroad]

There is absolutely no consistency in the ease/difficulty with which you can buy SailRail tickets. I shouldn't complain here in Glasgow - even the standard ScotRail TVM can sell tickets through to major Irish stations. a £16.50 railcard single to Belfast means that I have a very easy cut off for flying over: if the Ryanair flight is more than a tenner, it's not really worth it!

 

[janb]

Are you saying the TOCs have temporarily withdrawn through tickets, forcing passengers to pay considerably more? If so, this will do them no favours at all, and not win any custom back from airlines.

Or are you saying that the booking offices can't do it and it temporarily has to be done by an alternative method?

The TOCs haven't withdrawn anything, the ferry operators are calling the shots. Basically in the case of Irish Ferries/Stena on the Fishguard/Holyhead routes the message was and presume still is for passengers to contact the ferry companies directly.

 

[4SRKT]

There is absolutely no consistency in the ease/difficulty with which you can buy SailRail tickets.

This is why I am glad that there is a non-numpty working at the Shipley booking office. I want a proper railway person who knows what is and isn't possible, and who regards it as some sort of challenge to get the machine to issue the best ticket.

Some of the deacons working at booking offices in the Bradford area have to be seen to be believed. A couple of years ago I was in the queue at Bradford Interchange, and there was a points failure at the junction, affecting trains going to Leeds. The staff behind the counter could barely conceal their panic when asked by passengers what to do, as they clearly had no idea. They were suggesting going downstairs to the bus part of the Interchange and enquiring there, but they seemed unaware as to whether there actually were any direct buses between Bradford and Leeds. Up stepped a highly irritated 4SRKT at this point, and announced to the queue the existence of an alternative half-hourly train service to Leeds from the nearby Forster Square station.

This sort of thing makes me sooooo annoyed. Everyone just reduced to an operator of a terminal, so it's hardly surprising when very few people engage with or have any interest in their work.

Grrrrr.

 

[First class]

Through tickets cannot be sold at the moment due to the ferry companies closing the reservations and withdrawing the services from staff journey planners.

Passengers to contact ferry companies directly.

Nothing to do with the TOCs, (indeed they are potentially losing a lot of revenue), just Stena/Irish Ferries removing the sailings from the Journey Planner/RJIS/CRS.

 

[4SRKT]

Can the ferry companies do this? I thought these fares were regulated.

 

[First class]

Can the ferry companies do this? I thought these fares were regulated.

I would imagine this is because the sheer number of passengers buying tickets to Ireland without a reservation, turning up at the pier and demanding they get on a ship.

There is very limited availability due to the ongoing plane saga.

The fare has not been withdrawn, but the ability to reserve a service has been. Without a reservation, you're not supposed to be able to board. (But a ticket is still available despite it being no good). Stena/IF are not subject to franchising.

 

[4SRKT]

I would imagine this is because the sheer number of passengers buying tickets to Ireland without a reservation, turning up at the pier and demanding they get on a ship.

There is very limited availability due to the ongoing plane saga.

The fare has not been withdrawn, but the ability to reserve a service has been. Without a reservation, you're not supposed to be able to board. (But a ticket is still available despite it being no good). Stena/IF are not subject to franchising.

Seems fair enough, as long as these fares are back by by August when I want to use 'em!

Stena may not be subject to franchising, but they are subject to hangovers of railway ticketing dating from Sealink days, such as privelege travel for BR staff. I assumed (probably wrongly) that these cheap fares were a legacy of the days of closer cooperation (and going further back, ownership) between the railway and Sealink.

Does this mean these tickets are valid on either Irish Ferries or Stena? Again, by my flawed reasoning above I'd assumed only Stena participated. Given that I'm going to be faced with a hideous fester at Holyhead, the fact that the Stena boat runs as little as 20 minutes later than the IF one makes it enormously more attractive to me!!

 

[paul_l]

Does this mean these tickets are valid on either Irish Ferries or Stena? Again, by my flawed reasoning above I'd assumed only Stena participated. Given that I'm going to be faced with a hideous fester at Holyhead, the fact that the Stena boat runs as little as 20 minutes later than the IF one makes it enormously more attractive to me!!

The tickets are routed either Stena Line or Irish Ferries, and this must be specified at purchase (when the accompanying compulsory ferry reservation is made), i.e. a ticket routed Stena Line is not valid on Irish Ferries (or vice versa).

 

[yorkie]

I've only used Irish Ferries on the Holyhead - Dublin route, as there was more to choose from and the timings suited. You have to pay for a bus at the other end though as the port is a long way through unpleasant industrial areas, I recall one or two people tried to walk it, I wouldn't! If you have a through rail ticket then you don't have to pay for the bus. Heading from Dublin you need to be careful to make sure you get the bus times and ensure you get on the right bus, it's a dedicated bus for the port.

 

[4SRKT]

I have [wife's] family and friends in Dublin, plus I am familiar with its rough parts (really not nice at all). In short, I'll be getting a lift to the port!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The tickets are routed either Stena Line or Irish Ferries, and this must be specified at purchase (when the accompanying compulsory ferry reservation is made), i.e. a ticket routed Stena Line is not valid on Irish Ferries (or vice versa).

How about on Stranraer > Belfast, where Stena is the only operator? Is there a compulsory ferry reservation on that too?

 

[yorkie]

The reservation may be 'compulsory' but they don't seem to mind what ferry you get, in my experience.

 

[4SRKT]

The reservation may be 'compulsory' but they don't seem to mind what ferry you get, in my experience.

That's good, because I'm planning an epic journey on the 17:56 Leeds > Carlisle, with a 24 minute connection at Carlisle and then a 15 minutes one at Kilmarnock to get on the 03:00 boat to be in Belfast in time for a hard day's thumper bashing (neatly picking up the 80 class diagram at Yorkgate at 07:11!). I'm confident it'll work, but it'd be rubbing salt in the wound if having missed one of these connections I then had to pay again to get on the next boat!

 

[paul_l]

How about on Stranraer > Belfast, where Stena is the only operator? Is there a compulsory ferry reservation on that too?

Apologies, I was referring to the route restriction of the Holyhead tickets, which is probably more relevant in that case as it likely dictates which ferry operator gets the revenue.

 

[4SRKT]

The fares are back on the NRE website dudes! £28.50 Dublin > Saltaire and £40 Leeds > Belfast (via Stranraer). Just the ticket ! (sorry)

I've got an incredibly lavish summer of bashing lined up, very neatly combined with the family holiday in Ireland. This will see an absolute feast of thumpers, along with the Steam Enterprise on 1st August, the Bodysnatcher on the north Wales coast (if it's still in the summer timetable that is), both the Welsh Highland and Ffestiniog Railways, and a whole host of modern DMUs and long festers in ferry ports. It's going to be knackering, but most rewarding IMHO.

 

[87015]

The fares are back on the NRE website dudes! £28.50 Dublin > Saltaire and £40 Leeds > Belfast (via Stranraer). Just the ticket ! (sorry)

Until May when they vanish overnight, now I'm sure thats not a coincidence and another riot down to NRs new train planning system kicking in....