Threatened to prosecute

[hellogiggles12]

A few weeks ago i boarded a train from brighton to london without a ticket as I was unable to purchase one due to insufficient funds in my account and needed to travel to london ASAP due to a family emergency.

I informed a ticket inspector on the train that i did not have a ticket and will be willing to pay the full fine given to me as well as stating the fact of a family emergency.

I was asked to travel back home to London as my sister has recently gone through a very traumatising experience and was in a state and needed to be look after until my mother received confirmation from work so she could have time off to take care of her.

I received a letter yesterday explaining a possible threat of prosecution as well as asking me to give a reason why i did not produce a valid ticket at the time.

Will national rail understand my situation and let me off with a fine? I also have confirmation from the police regarding the situation involving my sister, will this help my appeal?

I understand that i was in the wrong and i will be completely willing to pay the fine but i seriously cant risk and further prosecutions. PLEASE HELP!

 

[yorkie]

It sounds like a clear-cut case to me. If they do prosecute you, you've admitted not having the means to pay so it would be an easy prosecution, resulting in a fine, and possibly a criminal record (however it depends on what legislation they use to prosecute).

When you say "Will national rail understand my situation and let me off with a fine?" I think you meant "Will the Train Company (Southern/FCC?) agree to settle the matter out of court?" in which case the answer is that they might - but that's a matter between you and the relevant Train Company to agree on. If an agreement can't be reached, then it would be for the Courts to decide the outcome.

 

[bb21]

When you say that you are willing to pay, that makes no sense. The fare is due when you travel, not afterwards. If you have no money, how do you expect to pay?

 

[Greenback]

A credit card would allow you to pay for the journey before travelling in terms of having a ticket, but you would actually spend the money after having made the journey.

Someone else could also have bought you a ticket, in an emergency.

I'm afraid it looks to me like an open and shut case as you deliberately used the train without being in possession of a valid ticket, and have told the train company that you had no means of paying, even though you said you would pay a fine instead (which doesn't really make much sense when you think about it).

I wouldn't be surprised if this was enough for the company to go immediately to a prosecution. But they may not, and they might indeed offer a settlement. If they do, I doubt it will have anything to do with your family emergency, and them feeling sympathy for you. It will be a pragmatic decision based on being able to receive more money that way than through the courts.

 

[Chapeltom]

How did the OP manage to get through the barriers at Brighton? When they told the inspector they were willing to pay any sort of fine, it could be interpreted as a fine through court. I think the OP was trying to request a penalty fare, which wouldn't be applicable as it is for honest mistakes and let's be honest boarding a train without a means to pay is not an honest mistake.

 

[island]

To join a train with no ticket nor means to pay for one is a criminal offence under section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, which carries a fine of up to £1000 plus a criminal record if convicted in court.

A fine is something only a court can issue, and is the most severe possible outcome (unless, I suppose, one were to fail to pay it and end up getting committed to prison). If the OP wants to avoid a criminal record or court, he/she will need to contact the Train Operating Company in question and negotiate an out of court settlement. This would not be a fine.

I would also like to understand how the OP got to the train in the first place, as Brighton is gated.

For the record, there is a process available called SILK (stranded individual location known) which facilitates the remote purchase of a ticket by a friend or relative for a passenger who has no means to purchase one. This would have been the correct course of action for the OP's "family emergency".

 

[carriageline]

When you say that you are willing to pay, that makes no sense. The fare is due when you travel, not afterwards. If you have no money, how do you expect to pay?

Its fantastic. If a member of my family fell ill in Australia, I couldn't just jump on a plane/boat/taxi with no money or ticket and use "family emergency" as an excuse to travel for free, but yet people seem to think it's acceptable on a train? I would love to read into the mentality of such people. It's almost as if people think they are owed something for nothing...

Regarding SILK, that's interesting! How would one 'initiate' that? Always handy to know

I highly doubt they will let you off for a "family emergency", because why should they let you travel for free? It still costs them money to transport you, you have no right to be on that train if you are not paying. They will say, if you couldn't pay, don't travel.

 

[yorkie]

The ticket office could assist with a "SILK" transaction.

A cheaper alternative (as "SILK" is full-fare only) would be for another person (friend, family member etc) to purchase e-vouchers on East Coast. They would then purchase the required ticket on the East Coast website, paying wholly by e-vouchers. They would then give the 'TOD' code to the person wishing to travel.

The person wishing to travel then selects 'collect' and inserts any card into the ticket machine (the card is, of course, not charged!), types the 'TOD' code, and the tickets are issued.

However this is too late for the OP, but anyone in this position in future may find that helpful.

 

[carriageline]

Thanks Yorkie, very interesting that! Either way, transferring money is easy as anything now days. Personally, if I was "requested" by someone to go somewhere to assist and I had no money to do it, the first thing I would ask for is money. I just can't understand why you would jump straight on a train.


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[GB]

I would also like to understand how the OP got to the train in the first place, as Brighton is gated.

It may well have gates, doesn't mean they were operational at the time the OP boarded the train.

 

[hounddog]

Thanks Yorkie, very interesting that! Either way, transferring money is easy as anything now days. Personally, if I was "requested" by someone to go somewhere to assist and I had no money to do it, the first thing I would ask for is money. I just can't understand why you would jump straight on a train.


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Depending on the nature of the emergency - and we're told police were involved here - I can understand rational thinking going out of the window. But equally once the dust had settled I would expect to be dealt with for not buying a ticket.

 

[hellogiggles12]

Thank you for the responses.
I am fully aware that I was in the wrong and panicked, at the time i thought i had no other option.

I expect a penalty fine and I am willing to pay, regardless to the amount.

when i say 'let off' i mean no further prosecution such as a criminal record, ect.

I would never usually jump on a train without paying but in this case i had to, like i said i panicked and needed to be home to look after my sister at the time.
I felt terrible and incredible embarrassed.

I do not expect anyone to sympathise over my situation, however the ticket inspector did state that depending on the circumstance i will only have to pay the penalty fine.

 

[hellogiggles12]

It sounds like a clear-cut case to me. If they do prosecute you, you've admitted not having the means to pay so it would be an easy prosecution, resulting in a fine, and possibly a criminal record (however it depends on what legislation they use to prosecute).

When you say "Will national rail understand my situation and let me off with a fine?" I think you meant "Will the Train Company (Southern/FCC?) agree to settle the matter out of court?" in which case the answer is that they might - but that's a matter between you and the relevant Train Company to agree on. If an agreement can't be reached, then it would be for the Courts to decide the outcome.

I am willing to pay the full fine given without any argument. i am completely aware i was in the wrong.

 

[hellogiggles12]

Its fantastic. If a member of my family fell ill in Australia, I couldn't just jump on a plane/boat/taxi with no money or ticket and use "family emergency" as an excuse to travel for free, but yet people seem to think it's acceptable on a train? I would love to read into the mentality of such people. It's almost as if people think they are owed something for nothing...

Regarding SILK, that's interesting! How would one 'initiate' that? Always handy to know

I highly doubt they will let you off for a "family emergency", because why should they let you travel for free? It still costs them money to transport you, you have no right to be on that train if you are not paying. They will say, if you couldn't pay, don't travel.

Rational thinking at the time was out of the question.
I do not expect to get away with not paying for a ticket, like i said i will be more than happy to pay the penalty fine, i just want to know if i will be prosecuted such as a criminal record, ect.
I had no money at the time as i had been unemployed and have only recently found a new job, my family also were struggling, i had no immediate contact to borrow money from.

In any other case I would never jump on a train without paying and would never do it again, regardless of the situation. It was a stupid mistake and I regret it.

 

[bb21]

Thank you for the responses.
I am fully aware that I was in the wrong and panicked, at the time i thought i had no other option.

I expect a penalty fine and I am willing to pay, regardless to the amount.

when i say 'let off' i mean no further prosecution such as a criminal record, ect.

I would never usually jump on a train without paying but in this case i had to, like i said i panicked and needed to be home to look after my sister at the time.
I felt terrible and incredible embarrassed.

I do not expect anyone to sympathise over my situation, however the ticket inspector did state that depending on the circumstance i will only have to pay the penalty fine.

What do you mean by "penalty fine"? If you mean a Penalty Fare (£20 or twice the full single fare, whichever is greater) then the problem is that you cannot demand it. The RPI can use his discretion and issue a Penalty Fare if he suspects no intent to avoid paying the fare in the first place. In your case however, having no money can very easily be interpreted as intent, so it was correct that you were reported for prosecution. This is a Section 5.3(a) offence, and conviction will result in a criminal record if that is what you are prosecuted under.

 

[hellogiggles12]

What do you mean by "penalty fine"? If you mean a Penalty Fare (£20 or twice the full single fare, whichever is greater) then the problem is that you cannot demand it. The RPI can use his discretion and issue a Penalty Fare if he suspects no intent to avoid paying the fare in the first place. In your case however, having no money can very easily be interpreted as intent, so it was correct that you were reported for prosecution. This is a Section 5.3(a) offence, and conviction will result in a criminal record if that is what you are prosecuted under.

I have no intent to avoid paying the fare. Any amount i will pay it off.
I stated this to the officer and said i can pay on the 25th the following month as this is when i get payed.

 

[34D]

The ticket office could assist with a "SILK" transaction.

A cheaper alternative (as "SILK" is full-fare only) would be for another person (friend, family member etc) to purchase e-vouchers on East Coast. They would then purchase the required ticket on the East Coast website, paying wholly by e-vouchers. They would then give the 'TOD' code to the person wishing to travel.

The person wishing to travel then selects 'collect' and inserts any card into the ticket machine (the card is, of course, not charged!), types the 'TOD' code, and the tickets are issued.

However this is too late for the OP, but anyone in this position in future may find that helpful.

This would make a good addition to our ticketing guide.

 

[tony6499]

Penalty fare is for an honest mistake, deliberately boarding a train with no money for your fare is not a penalty fare situation so it wouldn't be covered by it.

Why didn't you explain your situation at Brighton ticket office or to one of the supervisors as arrangements could have been made so that you didn't break the law ?

 

[hellogiggles12]

Because i was unaware that any arrangements could be made. like i said all rational thinking went out the window

 

[hellogiggles12]

What do you mean by "penalty fine"? If you mean a Penalty Fare (£20 or twice the full single fare, whichever is greater) then the problem is that you cannot demand it. The RPI can use his discretion and issue a Penalty Fare if he suspects no intent to avoid paying the fare in the first place. In your case however, having no money can very easily be interpreted as intent, so it was correct that you were reported for prosecution. This is a Section 5.3(a) offence, and conviction will result in a criminal record if that is what you are prosecuted under.

Depending on the nature of the emergency - and we're told police were involved here - I can understand rational thinking going out of the window. But equally once the dust had settled I would expect to be dealt with for not buying a ticket.

I will pay anything from 20 - 1000.
My sister was sexually abused a few weeks prior and has been seriously depressed ever since and cannot be left alone as she is as risk of hurting herself.
Getting a criminal record will put my job at risk.

 

[bb21]

I have no intent to avoid paying the fare. Any amount i will pay it off.
I stated this to the officer and said i can pay on the 25th the following month as this is when i get payed.

Unfortunately the law does not work like that.

"Intent" is established by interpretation of your actions, not by proving what was going on in your head (which is impossible). Paying the fare weeks after your journey is no good.

While you have my sympathy for your circumstances, you didn't really leave the RPI with many options.

This would make a good addition to our ticketing guide.

It is in the Fares & Ticketing Guide - This would make a good addition to our ticketing guide.[/QUOTE]"]Section 9.5

I will pay anything from 20 - 1000.
My sister was sexually abused a few weeks prior and has been seriously depressed ever since and cannot be left alone as she is as risk of hurting herself.
Getting a criminal record will put my job at risk.

I think you need to take a deep breath first, and decide calmly what you would like to do.

There is no guarantee that the matter will go to court, especially if this is your first offence. It may be possible to reach an out-of-court settlement with the train company (Southern? FCC?) but of course there is no guarantee of that either. The ball is firmly in their court.

 

[tony6499]

Because i was unaware that any arrangements could be made. like i said all rational thinking went out the window

How did you pass through the ticket barriers at Brighton ? That would have been your opportunity to ask for help, they are manned 24/7.

That is what Southern will be considering when they receive the RPI's report.

 

[plastictaffy]

Isn't Victoria barriered as well?? And seeing as how FCC (if the OP travelled with FCC) don't have Guards, I would imagine all of their stations will have barriers.

Open and shut case??

 

[Urban Gateline]

Isn't Victoria barriered as well?? And seeing as how FCC (if the OP travelled with FCC) don't have Guards, I would imagine all of their stations will have barriers.

Open and shut case??

A bit off-topic, but definitely not all FCC-run stations have ticket barriers! In fact I think less than half do, even many in the London zonal area don't! Anyway as we know a station having barriers is not 100% protection from fare evasion with people buying short tickets or tailgating or mostly with the barriers being left open/unstaffed too often!

 

[34D]

It is in the Fares & Ticketing Guide - Section 9.5

I meant the east coast thingy

 

[sarahj]

Brighton is manned 24/7. Most fare evaders have come from other local stations that have no barriers, then change at Brighton. I have seen them do a block sometimes getting passengers who are changing from east coast to west coast and BML and VV, but its not easy to do.
Or they buy one stop tickets then suddenly find themselves on an express, next stop East Croydon. When you find them, they dont seem too concerned about being on the 'wrong' train Funny that.

 

[island]

I have no intent to avoid paying the fare. Any amount i will pay it off.
I stated this to the officer and said i can pay on the 25th the following month as this is when i get payed.

Thing is, the law says the fare is due at the time of travel and not later.

 

[redbutton]

Its fantastic. If a member of my family fell ill in Australia, I couldn't just jump on a plane/boat/taxi with no money or ticket and use "family emergency" as an excuse to travel for free

Interestingly, this isn't entirely true. The US, and perhaps other countries, offer a repatriation loan scheme for expats. Under this scheme, if I (as an expat) need to go back to the US urgently but can't afford it, I can trade in my passport at the Embassy in exchange for a plane ticket and a single-use travel document. Then, once in the US, I can't get a new passport until the debt is repaid.

Of course, that's not the same as simply going to the airport and blagging my way onto a plane, but I thought it was worth a mention.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand: I'd be interested to know whether the OP travelled with Southern or First Capital Connect?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Interestingly, this isn't entirely true. The US, and perhaps other countries, offer a repatriation loan scheme for expats. Under this scheme, if I (as an expat) need to go back to the US urgently but can't afford it, I can trade in my passport at the Embassy in exchange for a plane ticket and a single-use travel document. Then, once in the US, I can't get a new passport until the debt is repaid.

Of course, that's not the same as simply going to the airport and blagging my way onto a plane, but I thought it was worth a mention.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand: I'd be interested to know whether the OP travelled with Southern or First Capital Connect?

Ahh but if your sick relative is the ex-pat?