Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[Annetts key]

Three US servicemen have now been killed in the operation so far. Given how war averse US citizens are now, this could get ugly for Trump very quickly.

I'm not surprised that there have been some U.S. casualties. Whatever Trump does turns into a disaster of some sort for the U.S.A. or the world.

This amuses me:

Time and time again we have fallen for the "he is less bad than the predecessor/alternative so must be good" trap. This is what happened with Masoud Pezeshkian, Hassan Rouhani, Hamid Karzai, Naftali Bennett, Joe Biden, Emmanuel Macron and plenty of others. As they were seen as "good" compared to the other alternatives, people didn't question what their political views actually were and in the end got caught out badly.

It's lay people who take part in elections and many politicians are not always experts, but are lay people. So it's hardly surprising that in democratic systems sometimes a leader comes to power where they are not particularly popular with a significant number of the population.

Certainly, I consider Joe Biden to have done a reasonable job even if I disagreed with some of that administrations decisions. Trump in comparison is total disaster. I don't think there is more than one thing or decision where I agree with him.

Emmanuel Macron, that's more complex due to the way that the French system works. And I don't follow French politics very closely. But Macron is certainly better than Marion Le Pen would ever be.

And mostly, a new leader has to be a compromise. Because people with extreme views normally don't result in a good outcome overall.
.

 

[thenorthern]

Certainly, I consider Joe Biden to have done a reasonable job even if I disagreed with some of that administrations decisions. Trump in comparison is total disaster. I don't think there is more than one thing or decision where I agree with him.

Emmanuel Macron, that's more complex due to the way that the French system works. And I don't follow French politics very closely. But Macron is certainly better than Marion Le Pen would ever be.

It's more that people got carried away with the idea that Macron and Biden must be good as the alternative is bad. They might be better than the alternative but that does not make them good. I know many British commentators and politicians on the left supported them without thinking what the people are really like.

For example on Healthcare Biden is a staunch opponent of NHS-style healthcare and said he would veto it if Congress passed it. Macron has supported more private firms involved in French healthcare. On the economy, Macron has cut public spending and previously cut taxes for the rich. On foreign policy we all know what Biden's policy was on Israel and Gaza.

These policies are not good or bad they are just policies. In reality, though they don't align with most activists Labour, Your Party, the Green Party and other left wing parties. My enemy's enemy is my friend is never a good policy to follow.

 

[Annetts key]

It's more that people got carried away with the idea that Macron and Biden must be good as the alternative is bad. They might be better than the alternative but that does not make them good. I know many British commentators and politicians on the left supported them without thinking what the people are really like.

For example on Healthcare Biden is a staunch opponent of NHS-style healthcare and said he would veto it if Congress passed it. Macron has supported more private firms involved in French healthcare. On the economy, Macron has cut public spending and previously cut taxes for the rich. On foreign policy we all know what Biden's policy was on Israel and Gaza.

These policies are not good or bad they are just policies. In reality, though they don't align with most activists Labour, Your Party, the Green Party and other left wing parties. My enemy's enemy is my friend is never a good policy to follow.

Oh, I agree that neither Biden or Macron are even close to being left wing as we in this country would define it.

 

[nw1]

For example on Healthcare Biden is a staunch opponent of NHS-style healthcare and said he would veto it if Congress passed it.

Don't understand that with Biden. Why?

 

[Annetts key]

Don't understand that with Biden. Why?

The U.S.A. generally has difficulty understanding a universal health system that free at the point of use like the NHS.

 

[AndrewE]

Oh, I agree that neither Biden or Macron are even close to being left wing as we in this country would define it.

That's as maybe, but Biden is/was apparently respected throughout his career for his ability to talk to all sides and find a consensus then move the country forward together... That way he got lots more done than the current bull in a china shop.

I think it will end up with lots of even more valuable stuff smashed and then - eventually some sort of catharsis:- lots of recriminations, grief and expense if they actually want to re-form as one country and move on in a civilised way that respects its citizens' rights and the Constitution, let alone International Law.

 

[thenorthern]

Don't understand that with Biden. Why?

What part don't you understand? Biden isn't a socialist. Why would he support a socialist policy?

 

[nw1]

What part don't you understand? Biden isn't a socialist. Why would he support a socialist policy?

Because I don't see something like the NHS as socialist, I see it as centrist. So as I perceive him as a centrist, I would expect Biden to support it or at least not object to it.

 

[Gloster]

Because I don't see something like the NHS as socialist, I see it as centrist. So as I perceive him as a centrist, I would expect Biden to support it or at least not object to it.

But the US political establishment, both ‘right’ and ‘left’, is, except for a few outliers like Bernie Sanders, way to the right of our spectrum. The dividing line between right and left is probably, as far as attitudes and beliefs are concerned, somewhere on the right-hand end of our Conservative Party. And one of the principles of US healthcare, along with much else, is that it is more important that somebody, preferably big business, makes an healthy (read: obscene) profit from it than people are cared for.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because I don't see something like the NHS as socialist, I see it as centrist. So as I perceive him as a centrist, I would expect Biden to support it or at least not object to it.

Fully socialised healthcare is not a centrist policy in the USA.

Your idea of the political centre is Anglocentric and not the same as the political centre in the USA, or Japan, or India, or South Africa, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Krokodil]

Because I don't see something like the NHS as socialist, I see it as centrist. So as I perceive him as a centrist, I would expect Biden to support it or at least not object to it.

Yes but anything that we'd consider "centrist" is "literal communism" in the minds of many Americans.

 

[thenorthern]

That's as maybe, but Biden is/was apparently respected throughout his career for his ability to talk to all sides and find a consensus then move the country forward together... That way he got lots more done than the current bull in a china shop.

I think it will end up with lots of even more valuable stuff smashed and then - eventually some sort of catharsis:- lots of recriminations, grief and expense if they actually want to re-form as one country and move on in a civilised way that respects its citizens' rights and the Constitution, let alone International Law.

Because I don't see something like the NHS as socialist, I see it as centrist. So as I perceive him as a centrist, I would expect Biden to support it or at least not object to it.

He has always opposed single payer helathcare. Partially because in general US healthcare coverage is much greater than what the NHS provides. The cost would be too great. It's not some sort of compromise he has always made it clear he opposes it. I am not saying he is right or wrong it's just a fact what his policy is.

Kind of proves my point though that although Biden isn't Trump that does not mean he is a "good" person. Same with Macron, Zelenskyy and numerous "opposition" leaders around the world.

Just think back in 2010 the world celebrated the release of Aung San Suu Kyi. Now she is not thought of highly.

But the US political establishment, both ‘right’ and ‘left’, is, except for a few outliers like Bernie Sanders, way to the right of our spectrum. The dividing line between right and left is probably, as far as attitudes and beliefs are concerned, somewhere on the right-hand end of our Conservative Party. And one of the principles of US healthcare, along with much else, is that it is more important that somebody, preferably big business, makes an healthy (read: obscene) profit from it than people are cared for.

Bernie is very much on the left even by UK standards. His policies like a speculation tax, wealth tax, are very very left wing by UK standards.

Fully socialised healthcare is not a centrist policy in the USA.

Your idea of the political centre is Anglocentric and not the same as the political centre in the USA, or Japan, or India, or South Africa, or anywhere else for that matter.

The Political center is an odd thing, this may shock some people but in a lot of ways UK immigration laws are actually much tougher than Trump's immigration laws. It's because the way British politicians say it that people don't notice it.

 

[Gloster]

He has always opposed single payer helathcare. Partially because in general US healthcare coverage is much greater than what the NHS provides. The cost would be too great. It's not some sort of compromise he has always made it clear he opposes it. I am not saying he is right or wrong it's just a fact what his policy is.

There is a strong argument that it has developed to get as much money as possible from the patient or insurance company, who will do their best to dump it back on the patient. Therefore it does its best to find things to charge for, even if the need for them is doubtful or even non-existent.

(We are in danger of straying too far from the thread.)

 

[edwin_m]

I found this graph showing how much less specific procedures cost in many other countries versus the USA.

International Comparisons of Health Care Prices from the 2024 iFHP Study

The International Federation of Health Plans (iFHP) has published its 2024 International Healthcare Cost Comparison Report, marking its latest biennial analysis...

healthcostinstitute.org

 

[thenorthern]

There is a strong argument that it has developed to get as much money as possible from the patient or insurance company, who will do their best to dump it back on the patient. Therefore it does its best to find things to charge for, even if the need for them is doubtful or even non-existent.

(We are in danger of straying too far from the thread.)

I found this graph showing how much less specific procedures cost in many other countries versus the USA.

International Comparisons of Health Care Prices from the 2024 iFHP Study

The International Federation of Health Plans (iFHP) has published its 2024 International Healthcare Cost Comparison Report, marking its latest biennial analysis...

healthcostinstitute.org

The point is Biden was massively opposed to single-payer healthcare. Despite Bernie Sander, AOC and other thinking he might "change" he was always held that view so it's not really a massive shock that he still holds that view.

As I say it's important the lesser of two evils is still evil and my enemy's enemy is not my friend.

 

[brad465]

In news that won't surprise anyone, oil has jumped 9% on opening trading:

Oil Price Charts | Oilprice.com

Oilprices from around the world.

oilprice.com

(Graph of Brent Crude oil price with price at $79.32, up 9.24% on previous trading day)

 

[EYFanatic]

One should always be a little bit wary of claims made by regimes such as Iran. It may well have happened, but don’t build too much on it until it is reasonably well proven.

I think its clear it did happen now - saw a video on Sky of a parent finding their child's backpack in the rubble and digging franticlly and finding just an arm - and only an arm - under it. Whilst the now dead leader was a terrible and evil man, there is no excuse for bombing a well known educational facility. There is a special place in the deepest and darkest levels of hell for whoever fired the weapon and for the one who gave the order

Below is a link to the BBC's report - I think I might be excused for not posting a quote as is normal for the forum's rules as the link can be disturbing and triggering to some

BBC News Report On Bombing

#

This is going to devastate the middle east airlines and middle east holiday businesses for years to come

 

[Cdd89]

In news that won't surprise anyone, oil has jumped 9% on opening trading:

Oil Price Charts | Oilprice.com

Oilprices from around the world.

oilprice.com

View attachment 199338
(Graph of Brent Crude oil price with price at $79.32, up 9.24% on previous trading day)

A bit misleading to post the figure the instant the market opens, I'd suggest.

 

[Class73Electro]

A bit misleading to post the figure the instant the market opens, I'd suggest.

Look's to have stabilised at 7% still.

 

[martin butler]

The leadership of Iran, are now more likely to be even more hardline now, not less, which does nothing for peace worldwide, and stability, If you want a more moderate Iran, blowing its population to bits is not the way to do it,

We can all guess what the reasoning is for Israel and the US to have decided to add to the instability of the region, it's to do with the removal of an enemy that poses a threat to the Jewish state, that they, themselves created,

and from Trump, either he's just plain stupid, or compromised by others, I do wonder what Mossad holds on him, and what some people around him are also hiding, after all, none of his cabinet are exactly clean, and I think that in the fullness of time, people will be aghast at what comes tumbling out .

 

[EYFanatic]

We can all guess what the reasoning is for Israel and the US to have decided to add to the instability of the region, it's to do with the removal of an enemy that poses a threat to the Jewish state, that they, themselves created,

Years ago, the US battled an oppressive, murderous and genocidal regime... Now it is aiding one

 

[The exile]

Years ago, the US battled an oppressive, murderous and genocidal regime... Now it is aiding one

Though if you’re talking about events of 80 years ago, in order to battle that murderous regime they (and we) supplied vast amounts of equipment and money to an arguably equally murderous one.

 

[nw1]

Though if you’re talking about events of 80 years ago, in order to battle that murderous regime they (and we) supplied vast amounts of equipment and money to an arguably equally murderous one.

What would have happened at the time, incidentally, if, post-WWII, we refused to allow the USSR to effectively control East Germany, Poland, and other countries in that region? Would Joe have then declared war on us? Were we frightened of Soviet nukes being used against us?

 

[JamesT]

What would have happened at the time, incidentally, if, post-WWII, we refused to allow the USSR to effectively control East Germany, Poland, and other countries in that region? Would our ex-mate Joe have then declared war on us? Were we frightened of Soviet nukes being used against us?

Carving up Europe was decided at conferences such as Yalta, before the end of the war. We wanted the Soviets to attack the Japanese.
But Stalin wouldn’t have needed to declare war, he already had control of those countries after marching the Red Army through on their way to Berlin.

 

[The exile]

What would have happened at the time, incidentally, if, post-WWII, we refused to allow the USSR to effectively control East Germany, Poland, and other countries in that region? Would Joe have then declared war on us? Were we frightened of Soviet nukes being used against us?

Since those agreements were made long before the end of the war we would probably have found the Russians far less willing to do anything except make a dash for the nuclear research facilities at Dahlem (Berlin). Their attitude to the war against Japan was also critical.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2026 ==

Carving up Europe was decided at conferences such as Yalta, before the end of the war. We wanted the Soviets to attack the Japanese.
But Stalin wouldn’t have needed to declare war, he already had control of those countries after marching the Red Army through on their way to Berlin.

Meaning that in most cases, by the time it happened, the communist takeovers were “legal”. I would imagine we were more concerned with preventing similar events taking place in France, Italy and Greece. Might seem far-fetched now, but it didn’t then

 

[Killingworth]

Interesting that 'several' US jets have crashed in Kuwait- but no lives lost! Frendly fire?

Trump saying American deaths will be avenged. Classic response. Now he may start to understand how difficult it is to stop real wars. Like trying not to start them, or ramping them up in the first place!

 

[gg1]

Interesting that 'several' US jets have crashed in Kuwait- but no lives lost! Frendly fire?

Trump saying American deaths will be avenged. Classic response. Now he may start to understand how difficult it is to stop real wars. Like trying not to start them, or ramping them up in the first place!

There's a video here, with the US now confirming it's friendly fire (something the US military seem to make a habit of)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/ce8wed33e07o

US Central Command later said three US F-15 jets went down due to "an apparent friendly fire incident".

 

[brad465]

Trump will call them losers for dying.

And MAGA will clean out his rectum again.

 

[Krokodil]

friendly fire (something the US military seem to make a habit of)

A long established tradition

 

[Mogster]

It’s interesting, Iran didn’t shoot down these aircraft directly but it’s actively created the situation where it’s occurred.

It’s similar to the shoot down and near miss of the FA-18s over the Persian Gulf recently. The Houthis had been spamming drones at the US fleet while to USN attempted to continue active defence and manned flight operations. Eventually they shot down one of their own aircraft and nearly downed another.