edwin_m
Veteran Member
Probably coming from a leftie, but if remotely true this description of the ICE recruitment is deeply alarming: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ice-ad-voiceover-police_n_68c0358fe4b014007329d080
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Thoughts on the Trump presidency
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RailUK Forums
I can't help but feel another reason they've failed is the attempt to use 20th Century repression tactics in the 21st Century. By which I mean 50 years ago almost everything that we've been seeing in colour high definition moment after it happened would have, at best, been captured in grainy video or still photos and more likely would have simply been text reportage from people who were there.
This gives the regime narratives that they've tried to deploy about people like Renee Good and Alex Pretti that they were the aggressors, that they were assaulting officers, that they were deranged, that they were "Antifa", that weapons were being drawn against officers, that Minneapolis is a dangerous warzone, etc etc the room to breathe and grow and take root in the minds of people who aren't politically fixed one way or the other and then gives the regime room to secure it's objectives.
Instead they tell their vile lies about these people and within moments it starts to fall apart as video goes around the whole world almost faster than the lies themselves can spread. We see the videos, in high definition from multiple angles, of Renee Good sitting in her car not moving, of her final words to her murder being calmly saying "I'm not mad at you", of her moving her wheels away from the officer who murdered her before she tried to drive away. We see the videos, in high definition, of Alex Pretti being shoved by officers, of him moving to help a woman who fell, that his final words seemed to be "Are you okay?" to the woman who had been shoved over by officers, that he was sprayed in the face and nothing was in his hands other than his phone as officers took him to the ground and then executed him.
Then all the other footage and pictures that come out. Of young children being taken away, of old men being lead into the cold in their nightclothes, of teenagers being taken from their jobs, beaten and thrown out into the cold streets, of a woman trying to get to an appointment and get out of their way being ripped from her car. That when the violence starts it always seems to be ICE and CBP that are escalating and making things worse whilst the protestors stand their simply shouting and screaming and whistling and honking horns.
And suddenly the entire narrative becomes harder and harder to sustain. Sure they faithful stick to their guns in their online bubbles and dismiss this all (or even revel in it). But for the actual silent majority? They watch on in slowly growing horror and fury at what looks like a US city going through what looks like an occupation by a hostile army.
50 years ago, heck maybe even 30 years ago, it would have been an entirely different story. But in 2026? People can see that what the regime is saying are bold faced lies and even where there might be the possibility of nuance the lies are so extreme that it unravels the whole narrative (for instance you can perhaps squint and make a justification for the first bullet fired at Renee Good, but the second and third into the side of the vehicle? That the officer called her a "****ing bitch" as her car rolled away out of control? That bystanders were told to stay back even when they could offer aid to her?).
Definitely worth a watch! Considering it was written and filmed in 2023/24 before the election and based on a novel from the 1990s it feels more and more topical.
This gives the regime narratives that they've tried to deploy about people like Renee Good and Alex Pretti that they were the aggressors, that they were assaulting officers, that they were deranged, that they were "Antifa", that weapons were being drawn against officers, that Minneapolis is a dangerous warzone, etc etc the room to breathe and grow and take root in the minds of people who aren't politically fixed one way or the other and then gives the regime room to secure it's objectives.
Instead they tell their vile lies about these people and within moments it starts to fall apart as video goes around the whole world almost faster than the lies themselves can spread. We see the videos, in high definition from multiple angles, of Renee Good sitting in her car not moving, of her final words to her murder being calmly saying "I'm not mad at you", of her moving her wheels away from the officer who murdered her before she tried to drive away. We see the videos, in high definition, of Alex Pretti being shoved by officers, of him moving to help a woman who fell, that his final words seemed to be "Are you okay?" to the woman who had been shoved over by officers, that he was sprayed in the face and nothing was in his hands other than his phone as officers took him to the ground and then executed him.
Then all the other footage and pictures that come out. Of young children being taken away, of old men being lead into the cold in their nightclothes, of teenagers being taken from their jobs, beaten and thrown out into the cold streets, of a woman trying to get to an appointment and get out of their way being ripped from her car. That when the violence starts it always seems to be ICE and CBP that are escalating and making things worse whilst the protestors stand their simply shouting and screaming and whistling and honking horns.
And suddenly the entire narrative becomes harder and harder to sustain. Sure they faithful stick to their guns in their online bubbles and dismiss this all (or even revel in it). But for the actual silent majority? They watch on in slowly growing horror and fury at what looks like a US city going through what looks like an occupation by a hostile army.
50 years ago, heck maybe even 30 years ago, it would have been an entirely different story. But in 2026? People can see that what the regime is saying are bold faced lies and even where there might be the possibility of nuance the lies are so extreme that it unravels the whole narrative (for instance you can perhaps squint and make a justification for the first bullet fired at Renee Good, but the second and third into the side of the vehicle? That the officer called her a "****ing bitch" as her car rolled away out of control? That bystanders were told to stay back even when they could offer aid to her?).
Definitely worth a watch! Considering it was written and filmed in 2023/24 before the election and based on a novel from the 1990s it feels more and more topical.
Cross City
Member
No no I know you're not, it's a fair comment and that certainly wasn't my intended euphemism.
I did mean that Minneapolis is calm/boring and it being somewhere you really don't normally hear anything about (in a good way).
It sounds like he has been - being kicked back to his old job and apparently retiring soon. Not exactly the hero's welcome he probably thought he'd been getting at the start of this whole thing.
Gloster
Veteran Member
I think that one of the reasons for choosing Minneapolis, in addition to the governor being the former VP-candidate, was the accusations of fraud perpetrated by people of Somali origin within the social care system with the funds being used for terrorists purposes. There has been fraud, but there is very little evidence that the money has gone to terrorists. On 26 December a right-wing blogger posted an inflammatory video alleging on minimal evidence that there was widespread Somali fraud in the child care system. This video has gone viral and, conveniently, come to the attention of Trump who has reacted by going tonto and sending in the heavy mob.
On which note, I recommend that people look up Jimmy Kimmel Live and The Daily Show on Youtube.
In the good old days, the wealthy realised that they needed a strong economy just as much as everyone else.
Now though they can make a fast buck in the rebound when Trump TACOs.
There's more to it in this case, I feel. Minnesota is dangerous in winter. So if you get stuck in snow, the people won't hesitate to help you out. Trump has no concept of "mutually beneficial" so he views this as weakness.
Remember when two National Guardsmen were shot in DC (where they should never have been deployed in the first place) by an Afghan man?
As well as Afghanis (which I can at least understand in the context, even if I don'tagree), Trump's response singled out Somalis in Minnesota - what was the relevance? Exactly one month later, this Youtuber posts his rather dubious video.
While I agree nobody who reads the news could be unaware and I would question someone who said this (in fact I'd have questioned it before MSP was in the news, it's basic geography!), I don't actually think this is a particularly notable event on the world stage nor is it very relevant to the work of an MP.
It's obviously important domestic news over there but I wouldn't expect UK politicians to be commenting on it.
I agree it's not part of the day-to-day job of a constituency MP, but if that MP is also a minister or member of a shadow cabinet then events that have the real potential to trigger a civil war in one of our most important partners is something that I'd expect them to have a least a passing familiarity with.
Class73Electro
Member
Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
www.bbc.co.uk
Quotes from Article:
Milan Mayor's Thoughts:
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
www.bbc.co.uk
Quotes from Article:
Milan Mayor's Thoughts:
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
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brad465
Veteran Member
That has the making of a major diplomatic incident if followed through and agents cause problems there.Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
I would buy front row tickets to see ICE agents take part in the figure skating.
Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
Two concerning quotes from that article
That definitely has the makings of a law enforcement incident - it doesn't sound like the ICE agents would go down peacefully if the Italian police turned up to arrest them for criminal damage of the reporters vehicle.
It's all sounding a bit secret police that Vance and Rubio can't use the normal US assets abroad and instead have to bring in their own bunch of domestic enforcers.
Annetts key
Established Member
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but outside the grounds of the U.S. embassy or other officially recognised U.S. government building, any U.S. officials, law enforcement officers or similar have absolutely no authority or powers whatsoever unless the government of the country (in this case Italy) grant them any special powers.
If I was Italy, I would not grant them any such powers and if there are some existing powers or arrangements, I would revoke them. Further, I would be considering very carefully even letting any ICE agents into the country.
Normally U.S. the president or the vice president are protected by the U.S. Secret Service in cooperation with the host nation law enforcement. With a small number of the the U.S. military providing any extra security or logistics and support.
Hence, Italy can require that only existing long time serving U.S. Secret Service and U.S. military are permitted to enter the country or be used to protect the vice president.
I'd say it's very relevant to here because it shows the danger of right-wing authoritarianism.
It's a very important event on the world stage due to the USA's status as probably the most powerful nation in the West, and (until now) a nation that has reasonably upheld the rules of civilised society, at least to a degree. Where the US leads, others potentially follow.
It's very relevant to here (and other European countries) because it shows what could happen over here (and other European countries) if we choose to elect governments similar to the current regime in the US.
So yes, I would expect an answer from any potential Trumpist candidates over here. And if they don't answer, they are dodging the question.
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As far as I know that's correct. Outside the USA they are "just another Yank tourist" and have no more powers than the average person on the street.
I don't think any political parties in the UK are proposing to introduce widespread firearms or give them to relatively-untrained officers, on this there appears to be widespread political consensus (thankfully), so I don't think the same thing could easily happen here.
Absolutely, but: if they do some (relatively minor) things beyond their powers, would the govt wish to create a diplomatic incident by pursuing them in the same way as they would the average person on the street? We didn't in 2008, for actions which would have caused the average person on the street to be prosecuted for assault.
They (ICE) don't even have the powers they think they have in the USA! They just do what they want because Stephen Miller has said they have ultimate immunity.
One day, who knows exactly when, these people may discover that what Stephen Miller said (and others) won't keep them from jail. 'Just following orders' isn't a good defence.
SargeNpton
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 1,748
Have they misunderstood what ICE skating and ICE hockey are?Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
martin butler
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 883
And when that happens, especially if they are hold you face the death penalty, they will be ratting on each other so quick that the interrogators won't be able to keep up,
brad465
Veteran Member
Annetts key
Established Member
And the prize is exclusive, as in made exclusively of ICEYou win the internet for today
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Are ICE now skating on thin ice, or just sliding downhill fast?
Lloyds siding
Member
Figures....
ICE vs the AC Milan or Inter Ultras (fanatic football groups for those that don't know) would make for an interesting Olympic Sport, if a bit one sided (hint the Italians would win). But in general Italians tend to be a bit more, let's just say energetic. US hired thugs will not go down well if they start to pump out their chests and kick off with the locals.Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
Quotes from Article:
Milan Mayor's Thoughts:
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
Strathclyder
Established Member
Italy should make it very clear that ICE ain't welcome there in any way shape or form. Something along the lines of 'you send your trigger-happy goons here, we kick them, you and your entire Olympic delegation out. Your choice'.Being reported that ICE agents are going to Milan for the Olympics...
US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.
Italians not happy, unsurprisngly
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will, but I get the sneaking suspision that they're deliberately trying to spark a diplomatic incident with the mere suggestion they'll send these thugs to the Olympics and sow yet more seeds of division and chaos here in Europe cos we dared to stand up to the capricious orange wart in the Oval Office over Greenland. If they ain't carrying out their immigration role, then what's the point of them being there at all other than to agitate and rile up the local population? That and act as poorly trained, thuggish bodyguards of course.
Oh definitely. Would pay to see it quite honestly.
Apart from it being worth it's weight in popcorn, it would be long-overdue karma for everything ICE has been getting away with little to no consequences. Getting their hides handed to them on a sliver platter on the global stage would send them screaming back under the rocks from under which they crawled.
All hypothetical. Obviously.
Indeed, quite apart from the fact they can't throw their weight around on foreign soil and expect the locals to just sit back and watch. But given what we've seen, these thugs are arrogant and/or stupid enough to think they can. Nothing good can come of it if they end up following through with this.
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The only role they could legitimately play would be as security within the US section of the athlete's village.
Strathclyder
Established Member
And even then, I wouldn't trust them to not make a absolute hash of it.
It's almost funny to see the blame being passed around in the USA right now as everyone eats each other. Stephen Miller is apparently being blamed by Kristi Noem, but Miller is saying he was told by Greg Bovino.. and Melania is enraged that all this happened when people should have been enjoying her new documentary screening at Mar-a-Lago.
She's now calling for 'peace' but it seems more because she wants people to go to see her film, not anything else. Ticket sales are so bad that people are sharing pictures of unsold tickets at theatres all over the country.
Now Stephen Miller, seeing himself 'at risk', is apparently going to the base to say that Trump is wavering.
If the latter is true, this could be the beginning of the end for Trump - unless he acts fast to get rid of Miller. Otherwise Miller will try to oust Trump and take over properly, putting someone else in power to carry on his mission.
She's now calling for 'peace' but it seems more because she wants people to go to see her film, not anything else. Ticket sales are so bad that people are sharing pictures of unsold tickets at theatres all over the country.
Now Stephen Miller, seeing himself 'at risk', is apparently going to the base to say that Trump is wavering.
If the latter is true, this could be the beginning of the end for Trump - unless he acts fast to get rid of Miller. Otherwise Miller will try to oust Trump and take over properly, putting someone else in power to carry on his mission.
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They will get the living daylights beaten out of them preemptively by some foreign fans. It will be unsafe for ICE to be there.