Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[Killingworth]

This is exactly what I was thinking, and at this point the tech bros, Wall Street and several other wealthy influential interests in the US would have to intervene and try to stop it, because a US Civil War II would make 1929 look like a bad trading day and a dollar collapse that makes Weimar Germany look like carnival confetti display.

Hopefully the Civil War possibility remains just a thought but we have a few examples from this country where matters have got out of hand. Fortunately we don't have as many guns in circulation. The most recent flare up was last year outside asylum seekers hotels, but the 1990 riots surrounding the Poll Tax weren't a good time in London and elsewhere. Experience in N Ireland suggests it can be a lot harder to stop peaceful protests than to provoke escalation into increasingly violent armed conflict.

We need to bear in mind that a very large number, a sizeable minority maybe, support ICE actions and they're the section of the population most likely to be armed, often to the teeth!

What we say doesn't make any difference. Videos are emerging from many angles and it's becoming clear that there were many protesters, horns were being sounded and vehicles may have been positioned to impede ICE activity. Exactly who was involved in the scuffles isn't at all clear as uniforms aren't obvious. The victim seems only to be holding a phone, certainly no placard. Where any gun comes in is not established, it may not have been an ICE officer. I've seen no suggestion that a member of the public might have got themselves involved to support ICE but it's a possibility until ruled out

See the comments on this apparently sympathetic article in the US edition of the Daily Mail; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ng-victim-US-citizen-Alex-Jeffrey-Pretti.html The balance is very heavily in favour of ICE!

CU nurse Alex Jeffrey Pretti identified as victim of Minneapolis shooting as furious friends say 'good, kind' man was 'executed'​

The man shot dead during a struggle with federal agents in Minneapolis has been identified as an intensive care nurse who treated critically ill military veterans.

Alex Jeffrey Pretti, 37, was killed shortly after 9am Saturday after an altercation involving multiple federal officers.

Minneapolis police confirmed the deceased was a white, 37‑year‑old Minnesota resident and US citizen.

Pretti's friends have since confirmed his identity to the Daily Mail as they paid tribute to the 'good, kind' who they say was 'executed' by a Border Patrol agent.

The University of Minnesota alumnus most recently listed himself as a ‘junior scientist’ on LinkedIn.

He worked as a nurse for the Veterans Health Administration at the Minneapolis VA hospital and earned a reported $90,783 in 2023, according to public records.

‘I worked with him daily for years at the VA hospital,’ Ruth Anway, a Minneapolis‑based nurse, told the Daily Mail.

‘He was an ICU nurse. He worked with veterans. He was a really good guy. He definitely did not deserve to get killed.’

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A Minneapolis man who was gunned down during a struggle with federal agents has been identified by local media as Alex Jeffrey Pretti

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Pretti is a registered nurse, US citizen and a resident of Minnesota who had a gun license according to officials

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The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) told the Daily Mail that the deceased was armed with two magazines, and the gun has since been recovered by federal authorities (pictured)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ro...on-Andrew-fragile-state-Royal-Lodge-exit.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...t-historian-LSE-graduate-claims-new-book.html
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) told the Daily Mail that agents were in the area attempting to apprehend, ‘an illegal alien wanted for violent assault’ when they were approached by Pretti.

According to DHS, Pretti was armed and carrying a gun with two magazines at the time he was detained. The agency later released a photograph of a nine‑millimeter semi‑automatic handgun it said was recovered during the clash.

Officials claimed officers attempted to disarm Pretti but that he ‘violently resisted’ before a Border Patrol agent fired the fatal shot.

Pretti was pronounced dead at the scene. DHS said he did not have identification on him at the time.

Video from the scene shows agents wrestling with Pretti and taking him to the ground moments before the shooting.

Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O’Hara said Pretti had no serious criminal history, with records showing only minor parking violations. O’Hara added that he was a lawful gun owner with a valid permit.

Anway said Pretti was politically engaged and deeply informed.

‘He was always keeping up with the news and always just really well informed about what was going on,’ she said.

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Pretti is seen facing off with federal agents before he was shot dead

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A protester appeared to be detained after a Border Patrol agent reportedly shot a man several times in Minneapolis

‘We would always talk about everything going on in the world. As a friend who just saw my friend get killed, I just want to say he was a good guy,’ she said.

Anway last saw Pretti a few months ago. She recalled working with Pretti on January 6, 2021, as the US Capitol was attacked.

‘I remember we were working together and I just looked at him and said, “What is going on? This is crazy,”’ she said.

She said Pretti strongly believed in political activism and standing up for what he saw as injustice, adding that she believed those convictions explained why he was at the scene on Saturday.

‘I just know he was there because he felt conviction,’ she said.

Whitney Weisser, 37, a colleague of Pretti's who attended nursing school with him at the Minnesota Technical & Community College, said he was an 'amazing' person.

'I know it's a cliche but he really was one of the nicest people I've ever met,' Weisser told the Daily Mail.

'He was rebuilding his life when I met him. He went back to nursing school forn a new career.'

Weisser and Pretti attended nursing school together from 2019 through 2021. She said he was previously a researcher, but wanted to be a nurse so he could help people.

'He was the most protective guy. If any of us dealt with anything inappropriate from a patient or a coworker or anyone, he was there. He would always protect the person being bullied,' Weisser emotionally recalled.

'That's what he was doing at the protest, protecting a woman who was being bullied.'

Weisser said Pretti was 'smart as hell' and wouldn't pick a fight with an officer. She said she believed he wanted to protect people.

Dr. Dimitri Drekonja, chief of the Infectious Diseases Section at the Minneapolis VA and a professor of medicine at the University of Minnesota, also paid tribute to Pretti in a Facebook post.

‘Alex Pretti was a colleague at the VA,’ Drekonja wrote. ‘We hired him to recruit for our trial. He became an ICU nurse. I loved working with him. He was a good, kind person who lived to help - and these f***ers executed him.’

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Local police identified the man as a white 37-year-old US citizen from Minneapolis

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A federal agent and a protestor pictured face to face amidst widespread protests
Drekonja said he felt a ‘white‑hot rage’ after learning of Pretti’s death, adding that Pretti worked closely with critically ill veterans and was known for his positive attitude.

‘He had such a great attitude,’ he wrote. ‘We’d chat between patients about trying to get in a mountain bike ride together. Will never happen now.’

Pretti had been living in Minneapolis but also had ties to Green Bay, Wisconsin, and Colorado.

The shooting marks the third recent incident involving federal agents in Minneapolis. It follows the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Good, a US citizen, on January 7, and another incident in which a federal agent wounded a man about a week later.

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz condemned Saturday’s killing, calling it ‘another horrific shooting’ by federal agents deployed as part of a broader immigration crackdown.

‘Minnesota has had it. This is sickening,’ Walz said on X, calling on the White House to end the operation.

Saturday’s shooting sparked immediate protests, with bystanders yelling profanities at federal officers and telling them to leave the city.

Minneapolis has faced rising tensions amid the federal enforcement presence and ongoing protests - a backdrop shaped by prior high‑profile police killings, including the death of George Floyd in 2020.

Federal authorities identified the man they were initially seeking Saturday as Jose Huerta‑Chuma, an Ecuadorian national.

Border Patrol Commander Greg Bovino said Huerta‑Chuma has a criminal history that includes domestic assault, disorderly conduct and driving without a license, though federal court records did not list any cases under his name.

It's a mess!

 

[Annetts key]

Hopefully the Civil War possibility remains just a thought but we have a few examples from this country where matters have got out of hand. Fortunately we don't have as many guns in circulation. The most recent flare up was last year outside asylum seekers hotels, but the 1990 riots surrounding the Poll Tax weren't a good time in London and elsewhere. Experience in N Ireland suggests it can be a lot harder to stop peaceful protests than to provoke escalation into increasingly violent armed conflict.

We need to bear in mind that a very large number, a sizeable minority maybe, support ICE actions and they're the section of the population most likely to be armed, often to the teeth!

What we say doesn't make any difference. Videos are emerging from many angles and it's becoming clear that there were many protesters, horns were being sounded and vehicles may have been positioned to impede ICE activity. Exactly who was involved in the scuffles isn't at all clear as uniforms aren't obvious. The victim seems only to be holding a phone, certainly no placard. Where any gun comes in is not established, it may not have been an ICE officer. I've seen no suggestion that a member of the public might have got themselves involved to support ICE but it's a possibility until ruled out

See the comments on this apparently sympathetic article in the US edition of the Daily Mail; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ng-victim-US-citizen-Alex-Jeffrey-Pretti.html The balance is very heavily in favour of ICE!



It's a mess!

With all of this, some very important principles are getting lost.

It should be for the courts to decide if someone is guilty of a crime and if found guilty after following due process, for the courts to decide on the outcome or punishment.

It should not for any police officer, law enforcement officer or any federal agent (or any other similar role) to decide on guilt or apply punishment. And at all times, only reasonable force should be used and only when absolutely necessary.

Unfortunately the current U.S. administration is ignoring these principles and a lot of what they are doing, is taking advantage of the existing tools, apparatus and laws that existed before Trump came back to power.

And where there aren't clear laws, this administration is misusing or abusing existing systems and laws.

As noted, they are combining these powers with outright lies, misleading "evidence" and propaganda fed to the media (including social media) to make their case in public.

Those who oppose Trump and his administration really need to emphasise these points. And when the Democrats regain power, I suggest that a high priority would be change the laws and if possible, the constitution to restore the above important principles to reduce the risk of this abuse of power happening again.

In the meantime, I hope that the Democratic Party does everything legally that it can in the cities and states that it controls to tackle these problems. By that, I mean using city or state laws and the courts. And trying to use congress to act by getting some Republicans to vote with them.

On that last note, some Democrats are trying. Story in the Guardian:

Schumer: Democrats will block funding package if it includes homeland security money​

Announcement comes as anger toward DHS – which oversees ICE – intensifies after Alex Pretti fatally shot

Kira Lerner in Washington and Lauren Gambino in Los Angeles
Sun 25 Jan 2026 04.08 GMT

In the wake of another fatal shooting of a US citizen in Minnesota by a federal officer, the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, said his party would block a funding package next week if it includes money for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

The announcement, which dramatically escalates the potential for another partial government shutdown, comes as anger towards homeland security, which oversees ICE, intensifies among the party after a group of federal agents violently restrained and then fatally shot 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Pretti in Minneapolis.

“What’s happening in Minnesota is appalling – and unacceptable in any American city,” Schumer, a New York senator, said in a statement. “Democrats sought common sense reforms in the Department of Homeland Security spending bill, but because of Republicans’ refusal to stand up to President Trump, the DHS bill is woefully inadequate to rein in the abuses of ICE. I will vote no.”

“Senate Democrats will not provide the votes to proceed to the appropriations bill if the DHS funding bill is included,” he added.

The Senate is set to take up the spending measure as part of a broader legislative package that would fund broad swaths of the government, including the defense, state , education, labor and transportation departments. That package, which currently calls for $64.4bn for the DHSincluding $10bn for ICE, needs 60 votes to avoid a filibuster and pass the Senate. Republicans currently control 53 seats and would need Democratic support to pass the bipartisan package.

The looming vote was seen as a potentially painful decision for many Senate Democrats, wary of setting off another government shutdown just months after a painful 43-day fiscal showdown – the longest in the nation’s history – that ultimately failed to win an extension of healthcare subsidies.

But in the hours after fatal shooting, several Democrats have come forward to announce their opposition, including some who had until now appeared ready to vote the funding package.

“The Trump administration and Kristi Noem are putting undertrained, combative federal agents on the streets with no accountability,” Nevada senator Catherine Cortez Masto said in a statement. “They are oppressing Americans and are at odds with local law enforcement. This is clearly not about keeping Americans safe. It’s brutalizing US citizens and law-abiding immigrants.”

Last year, Cortez Masto was one of a handful of Democrats who broke rank and voted repeatedly to keep the government open.

Jacky Rosen, Nevada’s other senator who had also bucked her party during the shutdown, wrote on X: “As a member of the U.S. Senate, I have the responsibility to hold the Trump Administration accountable when I see abuses of power — like we are seeing from ICE right now. That is why I’ll be voting against any government funding package that contains the bill that funds this agency, until we have guardrails in place to curtail these abuses of power and ensure more accountability and transparency.”

Mark Warner, a Democratic senator for Virginia, wrote: “I cannot and will not vote to fund DHS while this administration continues these violent federal takeovers of our cities.”

In a sign of Democrats’ fury, Washington senator Patty Murray, the ranking member on the appropriations committee, who negotiated funding package, announced she would not support the package as currently written.

“Federal agents cannot murder people in broad daylight and face zero consequences. I will NOT support the DHS bill as it stands,” she said on X. “The DHS bill needs to be split off from the larger funding package before the Senate—Republicans must work with us to do that. I will continue fighting to rein in DHS and ICE.”

It was unclear if Senate Republicans were willing to separate the DHS funding measure from the rest of the package, which would likely win significant bipartisan support. On Saturday, many Republicans defended the agent and the department in the aftermath of the shooting.

Holding up the homeland security budget would not necessarily curtail the department’s enforcement operations, at least not in the short term. Trump’s 2025 domestic policy bill, known as the “big, beautiful bill”, included a $75bn supplement for ICE the agency could potentially tap if its funding lapsed.

But Democrats say they must use the threat to try to establish guardrails on federal immigration agents, whose increasingly violent tactics have fueled protests in cities across the US.

“We should not fund DHS without serious reform. We could return CBP to border. We could require warrants for immigration arrests. We could beef up training and require identification,” Senator Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat whose been pushing his colleagues to block DHS funding for weeks. “The list of possible reforms is long. What’s unacceptable is the current lawless status quo.”

Senate Democrats were expected to hold a meeting on Sunday to discuss their next steps.

The funding bill narrowly passed the Republican-controlled House on Thursday, overcoming a Democratic revolt following the death of Renee Good, who was shot and killed by an ICE agent in Minneapolis earlier this month.

Seven Democrats, however, helped nearly all Republicans move it over the line. Explaining their support, several of the Democrats sharply denounced ICE’s conduct in US cities, but argued that the funding bill contained hard-won concessions, including funding for body cameras and de-escalation training for ICE officers.

But Republicans rejected other proposals sought by Democrats, including measures that would have requires judicial warrants for home entries and a provision explicitly prohibiting funds from being used to detain or deport US citizens.

Link to source

 

[bahnause]

When reading the articles about the events in Minneapolis, I was reminded of Walter Mehring's poem ‘Sage vom grossen Krebs’ (Tale of the Great Cancer). In it, too, a state power eats its way sideways, disguises violence as order and declares a state of emergency to be a necessity.

Mehring wrote the poem in the early 1930s, at a time when many still believed that these were temporary ‘security measures’. History teaches us that when armed authorities begin to dehumanise people, when law is replaced by power and criticism is considered a threat, society does not move forward, but backward.

 

[Bantamzen]

It only gets worse, the orange buffoon is now suggesting that NATO involve Article 5 because the US is being "invaded" along it's Southern border. Well I say NATO take him up on his offer, but instead send NATO troops to deal with the invasion of armed thugs in Minnesota. Put these wanna-be soldiers up against real, hardened troops. And while we are there, we could depose the current dictatorship sending their untrained, ill-disciplined army...

Trump thinks he can outsmart NATO by "testing" them. But he might just want to be careful what he asks for, Canada & Greenland might ask NATO to intervene as they have a dangerous neighbour threatening to invade them...

 

[Mogster]

Over 1000 people are shot dead by law enforcement officials each year in the US. Over 100 law enforcement officials are shot dead while working each year. There’s so many that the stats don’t seem to be collated centraly so the true numbers could be higher.

Confronting law enforcement officials in the US is a dangerous business. The figures are high enough that you could conclude there’s a barely suppressed civil war going on in the US continually.

 

[nw1]

These ICE people should realise that their lives have been saved by liberals.

Minnesota doesn't have the death penalty.

At the very least, Ross and this latest piece of killing scum need to be locked up for the rest of their lives. If they are not, it just shows how these days, immigration police get special treatment because they are seen as "heroes", keeping the country "clean" of "dirty foreigners", rather than the violent killers some of them seem to be turning out to be. The real evil is ICE, not immigrants.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2026 ==

It only gets worse, the orange buffoon is now suggesting that NATO involve Article 5 because the US is being "invaded" along it's Southern border.

America does have a threat. But that threat is being perpetrated by English-speaking, native born, Trump-supporting, US citizens.

Any other so called threats are irrelevant compared to that.

ICE is, from what I can see, a far bigger threat to the USA than Russia or any Islamist groups.
And the other threat to America is, of course, its own government.

 

[jon0844]

What I'm seeing now is the right saying he shouldn't have had a gun, and I see the NRA is upset that someone who had a legal right to open carry was shot.

I wonder how the NRA will handle this because they're defending the victim* - but a lot of their members will be the ones who say he deserves what came to him because he had a gun.

Make it make sense!

* His right to carry a gun at any rate.

 

[nw1]

What I'm seeing now is the right saying he shouldn't have had a gun, and I see the NRA is upset that someone who had a legal right to open carry was shot.

It's OK to have a gun, as long as you are a member of the far-right. As long as you're a MAGA cap-wearing, Gadsden-flag-flying true "patriot".
They won't admit that, but that's what they think.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2026 ==

Eventually the Government will invoke powers to remove people's freedoms to move around and try to set in motion the processes to delay or halt the mid-term elections.

The Republican Party will be finished if they do that. Granted not all Republicans are of the far-right extremist kind who support these killings, but even the moderate ones will be guilty by association.
America will not tolerate the cancellation of elections. That is dictatorship, pure and simple.

For that reason, it's now time for moderate Republicans to figuratively stab Trump and the far-right in the back.

 

[GusB]

Over 1000 people are shot dead by law enforcement officials each year in the US. Over 100 law enforcement officials are shot dead while working each year. There’s so many that the stats don’t seem to be collated centraly so the true numbers could be higher.

If stats aren't centrally collated, where are you getting these numbers from? Are you suggesting that this latest killing is just one more in a long line and that we shouldn't be overly concerned because it "just happens"?

Confronting law enforcement officials in the US is a dangerous business. The figures are high enough that you could conclude there’s a barely suppressed civil war going on in the US continually.

These aren't regular law enforcement officials, though. They're barely-trained thugs, many of whom don't even have proper uniforms and cover their faces to avoid being identified. Now, having been told they have immunity from prosecution, they appear to be using lethal force against anyone who simply gets in their way. Yes, it's a felony to obstruct them in their duties, but the "offenders" have a right to due process and should not expect a summary execution on the street.

They also appear to specifically targeting people of colour, including off-duty police officers:

Twin Cities officials accuse ICE of targeting off-duty police officers

A local police chief said officials have received ‘endless complaints about civil rights violations’

www.independent.co.uk

Local officials are “receiving endless complaints about civil rights violations in our streets from U.S. citizens,” according to Mark Bruley, the police chief of Brooklyn Park, a suburb of Minneapolis. Off-duty police officers have also been targeted, he said.

“We started hearing from our police officers the same complaints as they fell victim to this while off duty. Every one of these individuals is a person of color who has had this happen to them,” Bruley told reporters.

Bruley said one off-duty officer was recently stopped by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents who “demanded her paperwork,” despite her being a U.S. citizen who “clearly would not have any paperwork.” The agents also had their guns drawn during the incident, he said.

“When she became concerned about the rhetoric and the way she was being treated, she pulled out her phone. In an attempt to record the incident, the phone was knocked out of her hands, preventing her from recording it,” Bruley said.

The agents “immediately left” without making any further comments after she identified herself as a Brooklyn Park police officer, Bruley said.

What I'm seeing now is the right saying he shouldn't have had a gun, and I see the NRA is upset that someone who had a legal right to open carry was shot.

I wonder how the NRA will handle this because they're defending the victim* - but a lot of their members will be the ones who say he deserves what came to him because he had a gun..

I never thought I'd see the day when I agree with the NRA (National Rifle Association), but it is absolutely right in this case. Alex Pretti was carrying a gun and was legally permitted to do so.

 

[martin butler]

ICE is just a paramilitary group of thugs, I would not be surprised if some are Jan 6th insurrectionists, pardoned by Trump, now employed by Miller, so a large degree of racism and white supremacist types also.

This is all part of Miller's plan to create a civil war, so that rights can be removed and the people controlled. Trump of course, just sees it as revenge against democrat governors, who he hates; and what better than open conflict to further his control.

I think that Some governors will send in the national guard to take ICE off the streets, and Trump will declare marshal law, and it will get really bad, very quickly, at this point congress will have to act to remove him.

A lot will depend on the military and who they are loyal to; the constitution, or the commander in chief, who will have given them an unlawful order.

Then it depends on who wins, congress, and then will come the trials of the regime, or Trump, in which case America will be finished as a country.

 

[Mogster]

If stats aren't centrally collated, where are you getting these numbers from? Are you suggesting that this latest killing is just one more in a long line and that we shouldn't be overly concerned because it "just happens"?


These aren't regular law enforcement officials, though. They're barely-trained thugs, many of whom don't even have proper uniforms and cover their faces to avoid being identified. Now, having been told they have immunity from prosecution, they appear to be using lethal force against anyone who simply gets in their way. Yes, it's a felony to obstruct them in their duties, but the "offenders" have a right to due process and should not expect a summary execution on the street.

They also appear to specifically targeting people of colour, including off-duty police officers:

Twin Cities officials accuse ICE of targeting off-duty police officers

A local police chief said officials have received ‘endless complaints about civil rights violations’

www.independent.co.uk

I never thought I'd see the day when I agree with the NRA (National Rifle Association), but it is absolutely right in this case. Alex Pretti was carrying a gun and was legally permitted to do so.

Sites like Statista and Wiki show similar numbers, as do other articles. Wiki states there are no country wide collected and verified stats for the USA. I understand the limitations of Wiki as a source.

I’m just indicating that there is a huge on going problem in the US beyond the ICE issue.

 

[87electric]

ICE is just a paramilitary group of thugs, I would not be surprised if some are Jan 6th insurrectionists, pardoned by Trump, now employed by Miller, so a large degree of racism and white supremist types also, This is all part of Miller's plan to create a civil war,so that rights can be removed and the people controlled, Trump of course, just sees it as revenge against democrat governors who he hates. and what better than open conflict to further his control,
I think that Some governors will send in the national guard to take ICE off the streets, and Trump will declaire marshal law, and it will get really bad, very quickly, at this point congress will have to act to remove him Alot will depend on the military and who they are loyal to, the constitution, or the comander in chief, who will have given them an unlawful order, and , then it depends on who wins, congress, and then will come the trials of the regeme, or Trump, in which case America will be finnished as a country.

So it could be deemed as insurrectionists versus insurrectionists. I’d call that a fair fight then.
Church stormers versus Whitehouse stormers. Both as bad as each other with unlawful protesting.

 

[GusB]

So it could be deemed as insurrectionists versus insurrectionists. I’d call that a fair fight then.
Church stormers versus Whitehouse stormers. Both as bad as each other with unlawful protesting.

Peaceful protest is not insurrection and the right to do so is constitutional.

 

[Gloster]

One thing that I have looked at but been unable to get a clear answer to is the rules surrounding calling out the National Guard, although maybe I did not look in the right place. It seems unclear whether a governor can call up the Guard up to deal with widespread civil disobedience or similar: it can be called out domestically for hurricanes, earthquakes and so on, but dealing with human matters doesn’t seem to be considered, at least not specifically. Furthermore, it doesn’t seem to be clear whether the President can, er, trump a state governor and overrule his or her decision to call the Guard out.

The answer may be in the wording somewhere, but it is possible that nobody ever made it clear because it was beyond their comprehension that such situations could arise. But that is the modern US.

 

[AlterEgo]

So it could be deemed as insurrectionists versus insurrectionists. I’d call that a fair fight then.
Church stormers versus Whitehouse stormers. Both as bad as each other with unlawful protesting.

Nothing here makes any sense.

 

[nw1]

So it could be deemed as insurrectionists versus insurrectionists. I’d call that a fair fight then.
Church stormers versus Whitehouse stormers. Both as bad as each other with unlawful protesting.

Can you explain how the American left are going around oppressing people, depriving them of their rights, and now, seemingly, their lives?

What is this "unlawful protesting" that the left are doing, exactly?

What has the American left done which is comparable to the events of Jan 2021?

Or are you expecting them to be conformist, compliant sheep and indulge in forelock-tugging respect for and obedience to ICE and Trump by not protesting at all?

 

[dorsetdesiro]

"Like watching a car crash over and over and over"

A very good description of Trump by the movie maker James Cameron.

The impeachment list must be ever increasing each day, more action must be taken before more Minneapoltians get fatally injured.

Both sides, red & blue, need to get together for America's sake, to remove Trump, or it could face irrepairable damage such as future division into two countries (like in the past) or transfer of northern blue states to Canada.

 

[Krokodil]

I believe that there is a court hearing tomorrow where Minneapolis will be trying to get a pause put on ICE operations within the city. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

 

[Bantamzen]

BBC News Verify has a short video attempting to unpicked what happened. They conclude that it appears that Pretti's gun was removed from his person before any shots were fired, And having seen a number of different angles of this I am inclined to agree. But what is also extremely important to observe is how this situation escalates.

It starts with Pretti holding his phone in his right hand and nothing in his left one talking to one agent, who then pushes him and another protestor backwards. Pretti then appears to go to the aid of the woman pushed over, and an agent responds immediately by pepper spraying him for several seconds. But despite this Pretti appears to continue to try to help the woman, at which point several agents tackle him to the ground, with one appearing to punch / hit Pretti several times, possibly in the head. Then one agent approaches Pretti and appears to remove his weapon and start to walk away. It's at this moment that another agent draws his weapon, and immediately shoots. This leads to the other agents holding Pretti down to start to move back, and fire more shots and his now still body.

So despite what Secretary Noem claims, it does not appear that at any point did Pretti draw his weapon or threaten any agents. A weapon which is believed to be legally owned by him, and carry concealed as is perfectly legal in Minnesota. What is clear from the start of the footage that the agent pushing Pretti back was not in fear of his life, otherwise he would have drawn his sidearm sooner. Additionally it's pretty obvious by now that Pretti would have had no time to draw his before being tackled to the ground by half a dozen agents. In fact from some angles it appears both his hands are empty, presumably having dropped his phone when being wrestled to the ground.

So I am even more confident in calling this a cold blooded execution of a protestor. And having seen an agent remove his weapon and start to walk away, I am wondering if he was the one that shouted "Gun!" in order to provoke the final and fatal escalation. There's one final, grim but not yet verified act though. It is claimed that a number of agents instead of attempting to give any medical assistance to Pretti in the aftermath (even though it's very likely he was long dead), they proceeded to count bullet holes, as if it was the result of some sport. Like I say, this is unverified, but if there is an once of truth in it then it shows just how bad these people are.

The video is linked below, is edited just to pick up the key points, and of course comes with the warning that it contains very distressing images. So please use discretion in deciding whether or not to watch it:

BBC Verify - Analysing the Minneapolis shooting frame by frame

Anyway that's my take on this. I've taken no pleasure in watching a number of different views of this, it's left me drained and very angry. But not as much as reading people on social media trying to justify this, and even worse people on the right asking why he was carrying a gun in the first place. People who support gun ownership and carrying no less! It goes to show how badly divided the US has become, and how politics has polarised to a point where people ignore what they see to tow their party line. Orwell warned of just this.

 

[martin butler]

I believe that there is a court hearing tomorrow where Minneapolis will be trying to get a pause put on ICE operations within the city. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

I Don't hold out much hope for the courts to be able to control ICE, my fear is that it's going to get worse, before it gets better

The only way to stop Ice, and the thugs it allowed to act with impunity, is by bringing in the military, who at the same time should arrest Trump and the entire administration, before handed back to law enforcement, who can then act to arrest and charge those thugs,

Clearly those who are really in charge, the likes of Miller need to be arrested, Trump is really just a useful tool now, but to save the democracy, the only way is to take out the entire administration, then investigate those officials for corruption and treason,

 

[nw1]

So despite what Secretary Noem claims, it does not appear that at any point did Pretti draw his weapon or threaten any agents. A weapon which is believed to be legally owned by him, and carry concealed as is perfectly legal in Minnesota. What is clear from the start of the footage that the agent pushing Pretti back was not in fear of his life, otherwise he would have drawn his sidearm sooner. Additionally it's pretty obvious by now that Pretti would have had no time to draw his before being tackled to the ground by half a dozen agents. In fact from some angles it appears both his hands are empty, presumably having dropped his phone when being wrestled to the ground.

Noem really is an evil, evil individual if she is making these kinds of allegations without any proof. If there was any justice she would be locked up for the rest of her pathetic little life.

 

[Bantamzen]

Noem really is an evil, evil individual if she is making these kinds of allegations without any proof. If there was any justice she would be locked up for the rest of her pathetic little life.

Quite honestly the fact that she starts to deliver a narrative on the shootings even before she is in possession of the facts should be enough to have her up in court at the very least. Especially when her statements are just downright, demonstrable lies.

 

[nw1]

Quite honestly the fact that she starts to deliver a narrative on the shootings even before she is in possession of the facts should be enough to have her up in court at the very least. Especially when her statements are just downright, demonstrable lies.

I certainly hope that these people get their comeuppance once this regime is replaced. Certainly every single one of them should be investigated for possible wrongdoing, and if they are found to have committed any crimes, be punished to the maximum possible extent allowed under law for those crimes.

 

[Harpo]

Two former Presidents have felt the need to breach the usual protocol of not commenting on current affairs.

Former Democratic Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama have both criticised the situation in Minneapolis, with the former described events in Minneapolis as "horrible scenes" that "I never thought would take place in America."

Trump says administration 'reviewing everything' after fatal shooting of Minneapolis nurse Alex Pretti

The US president was asked by the Wall Street Journal whether the immigration agent who shot dead a man in Minneapolis had done the right thing.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[YorkshireBear]

Two former Presidents have felt the need to breach the usual protocol of not commenting on current affairs.

Trump says administration 'reviewing everything' after fatal shooting of Minneapolis nurse Alex Pretti

The US president was asked by the Wall Street Journal whether the immigration agent who shot dead a man in Minneapolis had done the right thing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Doesn't help does it..... Democrats commenting on this will just add to the entrenchment.

 

[Bantamzen]

Doesn't help does it..... Democrats commenting on this will just add to the entrenchment.

It really shouldn't be coming down to political lines. I know it is for many, but when the federal government or their agents screw up everyone should be onboard with wanting a full & open investigation. Its insane watching people perform mental gymnastics trying to find some justification for what we can all see as totally unjustifiable.

 

[AlterEgo]

Doesn't help does it..... Democrats commenting on this will just add to the entrenchment.

Not quite. A lot of right to carry Republicans are very very unhappy at the justification of the shooting (a man held a legally owned, legally concealed weapon carried under the 2nd Amendment which he did not even use or threaten to use). Some of those people are eminently reasonable and former presidents breaking protocol to condemn the murder only add to a broad wave of indignation. The administration is under heavy pressure.

 

[brad465]

Doesn't help does it..... Democrats commenting on this will just add to the entrenchment.

There have been critical Republicans at other levels of office/former office, but what doesn't help them is they only have one former living US President, and given he's about as popular as a bucket of cold sick, including with MAGA, he's better off keeping quiet.

 

[bahnause]

There have been critical Republicans at other levels of office/former office, but what doesn't help them is they only have one former living US President, and given he's about as popular as a bucket of cold sick, including with MAGA, he's better off keeping quiet.

If there were such a thing as reasonable Republicans, the situation would be different. However, I consider them to be nothing more than a pipe dream, given that their resistance collapsed at the first sign of opposition. I hope that, in future, people will remember how useless they were during the crisis, rather than celebrating them as heroes of reason despite their inaction.

 

[oldman]

There have been critical Republicans at other levels of office/former office, but what doesn't help them is they only have one former living US President, and given he's about as popular as a bucket of cold sick, including with MAGA, he's better off keeping quiet.

The Daily Mail has an online piece with the headline:

Where is Bush? Bill Clinton joins Obama to condemn Minneapolis shooting prompting calls for Republican ex-president to speak out

He may not be to your liking or mine, or popular with MAGAloons, but there are plenty of middle-class conservatives out there who may see Bush differently. In 2024 they voted with their party - they need encouragement to look beyond that.