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Thoughts on Lord Adonis's all line rover journey this week?

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Tin Rocket

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Lord Adonis a transport minister, is travelling on a stardand class all line rover for the next 7 days starting tonight down to truro and then making his way north to inverness by next week,what conclusions do you think he will come to regarding our rail network?is this just a cheap publicity stunt for political purposes?is the all line rover he is using masking the real costs of rail travel in the uk?what would you say to him if you found yourself sitting next to him?
 
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Daniel

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To be honest, he's on intercity trains, sleeper services, etc... try going to major cities such as Glasgow or London, maybe even Bristol, and use peak commuter services, see what they're like - thats where the real problems are, not on intercity services.
 

thefab444

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Well I think it's a good thing if it draws attention to the availability of such rover tickets.

Were I sat next to him, I'd first get him to force SWT to use my voice on the on train announcements on the Desiros, and then get down to business on sorting out the farce that is the current SWT timetable. :lol:
 

Daimler

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I think it's an excellent idea, but like Daniel, I notice one massive omission - not one - not one - commuter train into/out of London in the rush hour. That's the most heavily used part of the rail network (which probably explains its absence from his itinerary!).
 

bluenoxid

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To be honest, he's on intercity trains, sleeper services, etc... try going to major cities such as Glasgow or London, maybe even Bristol, and use peak commuter services, see what they're like - thats where the real problems are, not on intercity services.

So Newcastle - Carlisle is Intercity. Oh and so is Newcastle - Middlesborough and on to Darlington. He will also be using the Manc to Preston link.

Is C2C Intercity? Brighton - Ashford?

I am pretty disappointed that he is not using many northern PTE services although that might have been done strategically because they will have dragged him immediately after his appointment.
 

glynn80

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So Newcastle - Carlisle is Intercity. Oh and so is Newcastle - Middlesborough and on to Darlington. He will also be using the Manc to Preston link.

Well Newcastle to Carlisle are both cities so the rail service between those destinations could be concieved to be an Intercity service, the same can also be said for Manchester to Preston.
 

LilLoaf

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Well Newcastle to Carlisle are both cities so the rail service between those destinations could be concieved to be an Intercity service, the same can also be said for Manchester to Preston.

Eh... HOW, so just because to cities have a direct rail link its therefore an intercity network. What planet are you on? I certainly wouldn't call Newcastle - Carlisle intercity and i've travelled on it loads of times. So Manchester - Liverpool (via Newton Le Willows) is intercity aswell is it, eh no its a local stopping service.

How does everyone know where he's going to be going ?
 

glynn80

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Eh... HOW, so just because to cities have a direct rail link its therefore an intercity network. What planet are you on? I certainly wouldn't call Newcastle - Carlisle intercity and i've travelled on it loads of times. So Manchester - Liverpool (via Newton Le Willows) is intercity aswell is it, eh no its a local stopping service.

How does everyone know where he's going to be going ?

It depends on what definition you take of Intercity.

If you talk about the old British Rail sector- Intercity then Newcastle to Carlisle probably would be classed as such.

But if you think of the origins of the name Intercity, it obviously came from the prefix Inter, meaning among or between and the word city. So an Intercity service being a service between cities. And thus many services that you may not associate with the Intercity BR brand, may fall into the actual definition of an Inter city service.

Also since British Rail originally conceived the Intercity term in 1950, 15 more towns across the UK have been given city status, including some of those listed above.
 

thefab444

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Newcastle to Carlise is intercity but it's not Intercity.

This quote: “My plan is to get to railway lines I have rarely or never used.” - suggests Adonis is just getting an all expenses paid bashing trip around the UK! :lol:

Ned.
 

bluenoxid

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Train Travel for a week or bashing the ham for nearly two years. I think Adonis has got it wrong and Jacqui Smith's Husband got it right :lol:

£375 for a week of rail travel [1] versus £17 per month [2] of top quality adult entertainment. I believe DfT employees get travel benefits (priv rates) so it works out to around 5 months of top quality adult entertainment versus a weeks rail travel.

Absolutely disgusting. :lol:

[1] http://www.railrovers.org.uk/national.html
[2] http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/dtv/adult_channels.html
 

glynn80

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Train Travel for a week or bashing the ham for nearly two years. I think Adonis has got it wrong and Jacqui Smith's Husband got it right :lol:

£375 for a week of rail travel [1] versus £17 per month [2] of top quality adult entertainment. I believe DfT employees get travel benefits (priv rates) so it works out to around 5 months of top quality adult entertainment versus a weeks rail travel.

Absolutely disgusting. :lol:

[1] http://www.railrovers.org.uk/national.html
[2] http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/dtv/adult_channels.html

DfT employees do not get Privilege travel rates.

The House of Commons however can issue their own warrants, the FRPP states they are issued to MPs although some Hansard Written Answers suggest that each government department can also issue their own rail warrants and that is probably how Lord Adonis will purchase his All Line Rover.
 

route:oxford

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Lord Adonis a transport minister, is travelling on a standard class all line rover for the next 7 days starting tonight down to truro and then making his way north to Inverness by next week,what conclusions do you think he will come to regarding our rail network?is this just a cheap publicity stunt for political purposes?is the all line rover he is using masking the real costs of rail travel in the uk?what would you say to him if you found yourself sitting next to him?

It's not going to make much publicity unless it's an incredibly slow news week. Maybe it'll pick up a couple of minutes (in total) on the various BBC local news programmes.

Considering that he can get all the way from Truro to Inverness in 13 hours with just a change at Brum & Edinburgh , or in 14 hours with just the one change at Edinburgh, I'd guess he's planning to go off the Intercity Network during his 7 days.

Hopefully he'll discover the important things like...

Birmingham New Street is hell on earth and he's practically guaranteed to just miss his connection there.

Catering staff or supplies are often non-existant.

Sanitary facilities are often insanitary

Rebuilding major stations... Oxford for example, with 4 12-car through platforms as well as the planned new and upgraded bays would seriously improve the railway experience for millions through the eradication of consequential delays. How many times have I sat looking at that graveyard.

It rains in Glasgow. Can you imagine what it would be like if there were Underground (Cut & Cover) walkways that followed the streets of Glasgow allowing access to all the major shops at basement level between Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street and Buchanan Galleries or St Enoch Centre? Similar to Toronto. Security would make it a NED-free zone.

I suspect he's going to learn a lot. I'd also suspect that across the UK railway managerial grades are on a state of high alert. :lol:
 

90019

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It rains in Glasgow. Can you imagine what it would be like if there were Underground (Cut & Cover) walkways that followed the streets of Glasgow allowing access to all the major shops at basement level between Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street and Buchanan Galleries or St Enoch Centre? Similar to Toronto. Security would make it a NED-free zone.

You make it sound like thats something that only happens in Glasgow :?

It does rain in other places, it's not something that's unique to Glasgow. If you really want I can provide pictures and video to prove this :p
And there are neds elsewhere too.
 

TEW

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I would hardly call Par-Newquay an Intercity route.
 

Pumbaa

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Good guy. Shame he won't be the Transport Minister for much longer.
 
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As an aside, does an ALR cover the Tilbury-Gravesend Ferry? When I used it a couple of years ago it cost £2.50 for a single crossing, possibly the most expensive 10 minutes of public transport I've ever encountered. The equivalent journey in Holland (Maassluis - Rozenburg) cost only 70c!
 

route:oxford

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You make it sound like thats something that only happens in Glasgow :?

It does rain in other places, it's not something that's unique to Glasgow. If you really want I can provide pictures and video to prove this :p
And there are neds elsewhere too.

It just rains rather a lot in Glasgow. When I worked there about 12 years ago I had a golf umbrella printed specially for me. It had a picture of Mr Sneeze with "Glasgow's Miles Wetter" above him. Can't think where I got that idea from...

And yes, the sun does sometimes shine and the temperature can hit a balmy 22C in Red Square. The locals like to bare their pale blue skin* during lunch hours there.

I'm glad you agreed with my other comments though.

Being Scottish, albeit not from Strathclyde, my skin is also pale blue...
 

Metroland

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The Night Riviera sleeper service to Cornwall leaves from Platform 1 at Paddington. This is the platform, dominated by its huge Victorian clock, from which my train to boarding school used to leave, so seven years of vivid memories flood back as I arrive for another uncertain voyage.

The train harks back to the past in many other ways. It is locomotive-hauled – the Totnes Castle doing the honours on this occasion – and has wonderful old-style sleeper compartments, each with a courteous attendant who will bring tea and breakfast as the train pulls into Bodmin Parkway at 6.30am.

My attendant, Tasmyn, is a Cornish lady who has been doing the job for six years. She loves the train and it shows. There are three sleeper coaches, each with eight single and four double berths, and it is about two thirds full.

The new touch is an on-board entertainment system. As the train pulls out of a deserted Paddington at 11.45pm I flick on to the drama channel to find a Poirot special. No, surely not Murder on the Orient Express. In fact it is Mrs McGinty's Dead, with Poirot proving the innocence of a convicted killer within days of the gallows, via lots of trips to the village of the murder on restored steam trains which I hope made some money for the heritage side of the rail industry.
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I fall asleep long before the little grey cells have identified the real murderer, and don't wake up until the station announcer at Exeter, at 4.30am, makes it hard to do otherwise.

Off the train a little early at 7.05 for breakfast in a Truro coffee shop with Matthew Taylor MP. His main transport concern is the A30, whose dualling is still incomplete. An hour later back on the train to the junction station of Par, where Dan Rogerson MP is on the platform with the leaders of the Focal group, which is promoting improvements to the branch line to Newquay – on which I travel next after visiting the wonderful old Par signal box, with its levers, bells and semaphore signals, straight out of Poirot.

The line to Newquay is not quite the classic case of the branch line fallen on hard times but it is reviving. It kept its holiday express trains to London post-Beeching and also a good deal of china clay freight traffic. Now it has seven weekday local trains winding slowly along the 21-mile line in addition to the Saturday long-distance trains.

The local trains are mostly single-carriage trains like the one I take. Ours is pretty full there and back, including a party of young surfers out for a day from Saltash who quickly take up all the luggage racks with their surfboards. Apparently on Good Friday the train was so full with surfers that a local coach had to be found to take half of them. With Newquay a growing attraction, the future for the line appears bright, although it is now running at full capacity.

A two-minute connection at Par, then on to a Penzance-to-London express. Next stop Exeter to meet representatives from Devon rail user groups before taking trains to Yeovil, Weymouth, Southampton and finally reaching Brighton at 11.20 tonight. Then to a hotel for the first long – well, six-hour, stationary period in 24 hours.

So far, every train on time. The InterCity 125 I'm on has every seat taken as we reach Totnes – no sign of the Totnes Castle – and a few people standing in the vestibule, so when it leaves Exeter it will doubtless be busy.

Andrew Adonis is Minister for Transport

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article6092448.ece
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I arrive at Hastings at 6.30am in the company of a dozen other passengers, having set off from Brighton at 5.30am with only two others before Norman Baker MP joined at Lewes.

Norman, who is passionate about the railways, points out the disused platform at Lewes which used to serve the rural line that is now the preserved Bluebell Railway from Sheffield Park. I remember visiting the Bluebell at the age of 9 and the thrill of going on a steam train for the first time. The memory came back yesterday afrernoon when I visited the Swanage Railway in Dorset with Jim Knight, the local MP and Schools Minister.

The large, enthusiastic and highly professional team at the Swanage operate steam and old diesel trains along a dozen miles of track from Norden, with a full daily timetable. They want to link up to the London-Weymouth main line at Wareham. There is strong local support and, since the track is all there and the business case is promising, the proposal is highly credible.

Britain's preserved steam railways are a remarkable part of the railway system and the national tourist industry. As a proponent of new high-speed rail lines, I am keen to build a new technological future for the railways, breaking with our baleful historic tradition of patch-and-mend. The challenge is to celebrate the best of the past – as do our preserved railways – while boldly seizing the latest technology to create anew for the future.
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Norman leaves at Eastbourne, for a ceremony with war veterans, as I proceed to what is now called Ashford International – a junction with High Speed One from St Pancras to the Channel Tunnel which is the best of the modern on Britain's railways and a model for the future

At Ashford, Amir, the guard on the train from Eastbourne, tells me that passenger numbers on his line have rocketed since the old Ashford to Hastings service was extended through to Brighton two years ago. At peak hours the two-coach trains are extended to four coaches, but it is still sometimes standing room only. A success story for Southern, which pioneered the service, and a good example of the struggle to provide enough trains and carriages on lines where passenger numbers are growing fast.

Less positive was my experience of Southampton station yesterday evening. At only 8pm there was nowhere on the station selling refreshments – not even a cup of tea was to be had for good money – and but for the forethought of Jocelyn Pearson, the local Passenger Focus director who came to brief me on her work, who had brought a bottle of orange juice, I would have got on to the two-hour train to Brighton unable to get anything to eat or drink. This was in marked contrast to Brighton, where the station's M&S was still open at 11.30pm, so I could buy dinner on arrival.

Surely the major stations should be selling food and drink until late evening, in the same way that motorway service stations are required to do? Another point for action on my return – starting by finding out who is responsible for commissioning catering at major stations, Network Rail or the train operating companies. If I don't know, the travelling public doubtless don't know who to take this up with either.

It surprises me that it isn't in someone's commercial interest to be providing refreshments in a major station such as Southampton until late in the evening; the ticket collector told me that he gets lots of evening passengers asking where they can get something to eat and drink. I will be raising this issue with SWT and Network Rail next time I see them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article6098034.ece
 

Pumbaa

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Good read - he raises some realistic points, showing he's on Earth. I was also in Brighton's M+S yesterday, although several hours earlier than he was!
 

me123

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This is a good thing he's doing in my opinion, but by announcing his itinerary in advance he could have lost a lot of benefit from this experience. Furthermore, a one week journey can't really give him a clear picture of the country's rail network.

That said, I think what he's doing is good. He's already identifying issues with the network. What would be better in my opinion, is a survey of the rail network, identifying where the investment is needed. Send people out anonymously looking for the same things, and you'd get a better overall picture.
 

TDK

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It's not going to make much publicity unless it's an incredibly slow news week. Maybe it'll pick up a couple of minutes (in total) on the various BBC local news programmes.

Considering that he can get all the way from Truro to Inverness in 13 hours with just a change at Brum & Edinburgh , or in 14 hours with just the one change at Edinburgh, I'd guess he's planning to go off the Intercity Network during his 7 days.

Hopefully he'll discover the important things like...

Birmingham New Street is hell on earth and he's practically guaranteed to just miss his connection there.

Catering staff or supplies are often non-existant.

Sanitary facilities are often insanitary

Rebuilding major stations... Oxford for example, with 4 12-car through platforms as well as the planned new and upgraded bays would seriously improve the railway experience for millions through the eradication of consequential delays. How many times have I sat looking at that graveyard.

It rains in Glasgow. Can you imagine what it would be like if there were Underground (Cut & Cover) walkways that followed the streets of Glasgow allowing access to all the major shops at basement level between Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street and Buchanan Galleries or St Enoch Centre? Similar to Toronto. Security would make it a NED-free zone.

I suspect he's going to learn a lot. I'd also suspect that across the UK railway managerial grades are on a state of high alert. :lol:

Usually in these situations the companies are notified on what services a VIP is travelling on and I suspect the food will be specially ordered,the loos will be deep cleaned and the trains themselves will have been deep cleaned as well. It would be interesting if he decided to travel to Cardiff on an ATW 158 ad hoc!!!!
 

thefab444

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He raises a good point about Southampton Central. I was hoping when SWT closed the TravelCentre that an M&S Simply Food would take its place, as at Guildford, but even though the proposed tenant; Costa, have pulled out, I doubt M&S will move in.

It's also good that he's raising the profile of ALRs and Sleepers as well, both are underused (we could certainly benefit from more Sleeper services).
 

adrianboult

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What's this about trains on the Hastings to Ashford line being extended to four cars at peak hours??? Which ones, I have never seen this.
 

mumrar

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As an aside, does an ALR cover the Tilbury-Gravesend Ferry? When I used it a couple of years ago it cost £2.50 for a single crossing, possibly the most expensive 10 minutes of public transport I've ever encountered. The equivalent journey in Holland (Maassluis - Rozenburg) cost only 70c!

You should travel between Oakham and Stamford then, I'm embarrassed to ask for the OFF-PEAK single fare of £7.20 for an 11 minute journey!

It's also good that he's raising the profile of ALRs and Sleepers as well, both are underused (we could certainly benefit from more Sleeper services).

Agreed, I see some passengers with season tickets for 7 days that cost more than an ALR but with none of the advantages
 

mathmo

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You should travel between Oakham and Stamford then, I'm embarrassed to ask for the OFF-PEAK single fare of £7.20 for an 11 minute journey!
Heathrow Express: 16 minutes, price £16.50 standard class, £26.00 first class!

Getting back on topic - yesterday was Brighton to Norwich via a roundabout route - wonder what he'll have made of that? I think he's avoiding the mainline so won't complain about NXEA's catering...
 

jamesontheroad

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Heathrow Express: 16 minutes, price £16.50 standard class, £26.00 first class!

Getting back on topic - yesterday was Brighton to Norwich via a roundabout route - wonder what he'll have made of that? I think he's avoiding the mainline so won't complain about NXEA's catering...

I was looking forward to what he might have to say to five and a half hours on an overcrowded EMT 158, but he's chickening out and only travelling along the quiet stretch from Norwich to Peterborough :D
 

Metroland

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Everywhere I travel, railway staff, senior and junior, have practical suggestions for expanding and improving the railway system. They no longer see themselves working for a declining industry. They have a real pride in their job and managers are trying to work out how to reconcile explosive growth in rail demand with stations that are now often too constrained and trains that could do with more carriages and greater frequency to meet passenger needs.

At Exeter on Tuesday, the station manager told me that the station car park was now routinely full by mid-morning, and he would have no difficulty filling another 100 spaces if an old nearby piece of rail land could be converted. At Gillingham I was told of plans to renovate the station entirely, and at Ipswich, of plans to transform accessibility with new lifts; at Norwich, of a new bus interchange in the station forecourt which could do with being larger and able to offer much faster services into and through the city centre.

My conductor on the train on which I'm writing - the 05.52 Norwich to Liverpool (a mega cross country service via Peterborough Nottingham and Manchester) - tells me that the service is so popular that the two-car diesel units routinely struggle to take all the passengers and luggage. We left Norwich with only five passengers but already by Ely at 06.50, the train is filling up fast.

Two particular themes are the desire to run more services through to London, which lost them decades ago, and the need to improve east-west routes which have always been poor in relation to the radial routes from London. Or in the case of South-West England and Kent, north-south services.

My south-north journey from Gillingham to Ipswich yesterday via five trains and a virtually deserted Tilbury ferry, which deposits passengers in the middle of a freight terminal in Tilbury with a 15 minute walk to Tilbury station, is not one I would recommend widely.

But in Norwich yesterday evening where I met Charles Clarke MP with local council and business leaders, the discussion focused as much on the west-east Norwich to Peterborough routes as on their desire for a standard one-and-a-half hour journey time from London (it is currently 1hr 52m for the 120 miles, the same as London to York, which is another 60 miles further from London and seen by Norwich leaders as a key business location competitor).

At Lowestoft, which now has a thriving direct service to London seven times a day as well as local services to Norwich and Ipswich, the station manager described how the double tracking of Beccles station on the Ipswich line would make it possible to run a more regular service to London.

There were cameras in tow for my visit from a regional ITV news station. As we finished speaking a lady accosted me. I expected an earful about the failings of the train service. "Sorry, have you got some horror stories about the trains to tell me?" I enquired, with the cameras rolling. "Oh no, the trains are great; we've come in from Beccles with the kids for the sea and the burgers. But I've just started this new toothgel business and I was wondering if you could give it a plug."

Well, it's called Forever Living Products...

As for all the good ideas that have been put forward to me, I intend to see what can be done about them when I get back to London

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6106899.ece
 

Pumbaa

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Pete Waterman met Adonis today (Thurs) to travel with him Brum -Chester. I sat with Waterman on the way up from London over Breakfast to Brum on the 0933. Great guy.
 
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