This screen gave me a headache

[bakerstreet]

I found this screen rather interesting.

Yes it provides important information re wheelchair, cycle and first class etc, but the layout and information delivery, as per title, gave me a headache!

It was also not on screen for very long.

(Actually I already had a headache but you get the idea.)

It’s strange that there is apparently little thought as to how the passenger might interpret this information. Or maybe there’s a lot of thought but the tech can’t do much else.

(Screen shows:

Train stops in zones 9 to 2.
1st class zones 9, 6, 5 and 2.
Cycle space zones 7 and 3.
Wheelchair facilities zones 8
and 4. Train formation (Zones 9
to 2) H G F E A B C D

 

[Ken H]

I found this screen rather interesting.

Yes it provides important information re wheelchair, cycle and first class etc, but the layout and information delivery, as per title, gave me a headache!

It was also not on screen for very long.

(Actually I already had a headache but you get the idea.)

It’s strange that there is apparently little thought as to how the passenger might interpret this information. Or maybe there’s a lot of thought but the tech can’t do much else.

(Screen shows:

Train stops in zones 9 to 2.
1st class zones 9, 6, 5 and 2.
Cycle space zones 7 and 3.
Wheelchair facilities zones 8
and 4. Train formation (Zones 9
to 2) H G F E A B C D



View attachment 147658

This what you get when you get a tekky who knows what he means but nobody thought to sanity proof read it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where's the 'full and standing' cattle class section?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I found this screen rather interesting.

Yes it provides important information re wheelchair, cycle and first class etc, but the layout and information delivery, as per title, gave me a headache!

It was also not on screen for very long.

(Actually I already had a headache but you get the idea.)

It’s strange that there is apparently little thought as to how the passenger might interpret this information. Or maybe there’s a lot of thought but the tech can’t do much else.

(Screen shows:

Train stops in zones 9 to 2.
1st class zones 9, 6, 5 and 2.
Cycle space zones 7 and 3.
Wheelchair facilities zones 8
and 4. Train formation (Zones 9
to 2) H G F E A B C D



View attachment 147658

With the first line showing "Train stops in zones 9 to 2" and the last line saying "Train formation (Zones 9 to 2) H G F E A B C D"
Why not just have only one of those lines.
Otherwise I feel like it's at least good to have all the info there on one screen to cycle through all the info in decent time.

 

[superalbs]

That's such a horrific way of display train formation, it looks like they tried to replicate the diagrams that show carriage layouts and facilities, and made a total mess of it.

This is an example of one in the UK, showing a service's first class, buffet, and bike area. But this one uses graphics, so it actually makes sense.


The one shown in the OP is a full colour screen, so there's really no excuse to not do it properly. It could be very informative, rather than a total mess.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

For reference I believe this is Clapham Junction given the 20:49 to Basingstoke from Platform 9.

 

[superalbs]

For reference I believe this is Clapham Junction given the 20:49 to Basingstoke from Platform 9.

But SWR trains don't have letters, so it must be a XC service.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

But SWR trains don't have letters, so it must be a XC service.

But XC don't terminate at Basingstoke.

 

[YorkRailFan]

For reference I believe this is Clapham Junction given the 20:49 to Basingstoke from Platform 9.

Looks the photo taken by OP would have been at Clapham Junction then.

 

[superalbs]

But XC don't terminate at Basingstoke.

True, and the first class advertised location seems to be what a pair of SWR 450s would have. That makes the carriage letters even more irrelevant.

 

[bakerstreet]

Yes this was platform 9 waiting area at Clapham Junction. SWR desiro train (if they’re still called that)

 

[DJ_K666]

That's such a horrific way of display train formation, it looks like they tried to replicate the diagrams that show carriage layouts and facilities, and made a total mess of it.

This is an example of one in the UK, showing a service's first class, buffet, and bike area. But this one uses graphics, so it actually makes sense.
View attachment 147660

The one shown in the OP is a full colour screen, so there's really no excuse to not do it properly. It could be very informative, rather than a total mess.

A total mess indeed. Just like the railways since privatisation

 

[MCR247]

I didn’t even know 450s had carriage letters tbh

 

[fgwrich]

I didn’t even know 450s had carriage letters tbh

They don't. Unless it's considered an internal thing, there's certainly no indication one the units themselves.

 

[Snow1964]

Why are the zones numbered backwards, who in normal English says 9 to 2 rather than zones 2 to 9

The train lettering might decrease, (or in this case have A near middle) but why reverse the zones too

 

[station_road]

Why are the zones numbered backwards, who in normal English says 9 to 2 rather than zones 2 to 9

The train lettering might decrease, (or in this case have A near middle) but why reverse the zones too

Zone 9 is at the front for trains heading in that direction, makes sense to show them front to back.

 

[TUC]

Zone 9 is at the front for trains heading in that direction, makes sense to show them front to back.

But I can still see passengers qui

That's such a horrific way of display train formation, it looks like they tried to replicate the diagrams that show carriage layouts and facilities, and made a total mess of it.

This is an example of one in the UK, showing a service's first class, buffet, and bike area. But this one uses graphics, so it actually makes sense.
View attachment 147660

The one shown in the OP is a full colour screen, so there's really no excuse to not do it properly. It could be very informative, rather than a total mess.

Evrn that design can be confusing. In Leeds station where there are LNER services coming in from Bradford or Skipton before reversing out to go onto Kings Cross, it can be hard for some passengers to work out 'does that refer to the front of the train as it arrives or the opposite end when it departs?'

 

[The exile]

But I can still see passengers qui

Evrn that design can be confusing. In Leeds station where there are LNER services coming in from Bradford or Skipton before reversing out to go onto Kings Cross, it can be hard for some passengers to work out 'does that refer to the front of the train as it arrives or the opposite end when it departs?'

That’s where platform zones come in.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Why are the zones numbered backwards, who in normal English says 9 to 2 rather than zones 2 to 9

The train lettering might decrease, (or in this case have A near middle) but why reverse the zones too

I've never understood zones rather than just saying carriage numbers, but presumably Zone 1 would be at the London end. Where you have island platforms, I would guess it wouldn't make sense to have Zone 1 on one platform and Zone 12 on the opposite platform face.
Zone 9 would be the front of the train. You would say the Zone numbers in the direction in which the train is travelling

 

[mad_rich]

Zones stay where they are, regardless of which train is coming from which direction. Carriage numbers don't appear until the train has arrived, so not helpful for finding where to wait. It's kinda pointless telling people that their coach is at the front if they don't know which end the front will be, and how far along the platform it'll stop.

This is pretty clear, giving carriage numbers, platform zones, and direction of travel. I guess you have to know that the shading means 1st, but shouldn't be hard to work out even if you don't know.

 

[dm1]

This is what it looks like if done well.

https://ki-bahnhof-anywhere.app.sbb.ch/#/stream/8503000?gleis=31&sektor=A&ankunft=false&layout=stretched-basic&language=EN&api_key=ffacb88be40702c029eefdb222549b4f

(This is a live link, so will display exactly what's going on in real time when you click it)

 

[al78]

I think it would be clearer if the train formation was shown as a diagram rather than words and there is a lot to digest which if it is one page on a rolling screen would be a pain, but other than that it looks fine to me. I always find it a nuisance if I am travelling with a bicycle and I don't know where the bike carriage is until the train is in the platform, so I position myself on the platform where most of the carriages will pass me and look out for the cycle symbol.

 

[YorksLad12]

But SWR trains don't have letters, so it must be a XC service.

CrossCountry 220/221 sets don't have and 'E' carriage. I'm guessing that A-D was one set, the rest was another as there's 8 all together.

That's such a horrific way of display train formation, it looks like they tried to replicate the diagrams that show carriage layouts and facilities, and made a total mess of it.

This is an example of one in the UK, showing a service's first class, buffet, and bike area. But this one uses graphics, so it actually makes sense.
View attachment 147660

The one shown in the OP is a full colour screen, so there's really no excuse to not do it properly. It could be very informative, rather than a total mess.

Apart from 'U' being in the middle!

In Leeds station where there are LNER services coming in from Bradford or Skipton before reversing out to go onto Kings Cross, it can be hard for some passengers to work out 'does that refer to the front of the train as it arrives or the opposite end when it departs?'

I think the announcement is along thelines of "First Class accommodation is at the front of the train as it leaves the station", which only works if it pulls into 0, 1 or 6 as it has to reverse from there. If it pulls into 8 or 9, you need to know which end it leaves from first.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The use of numbered zones isn't really all that different than the use of coloured zones from BR days. As for the the OP, it's possibly only someone who doesn't need the information that would find it confusing/difficult to read. If, for example, I was travelling with a bicycle, I would be looking for that information, I couldn't give two hoots which zone first class or wheelchair access was in, so I wouldn't read that part.

 

[185]

It's very clear. See below for an explanation.

• The red zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the white zone.
• No, the white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.
• [later] The red zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the white zone.
• No, the white zone is for loading of passengers and there is no stopping in a RED zone.
• The red zone has always been for loading and unloading of passengers. There's never stopping in a white zone.
• Don't you tell me which zone is for loading, and which zone is for stopping!
• Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone [railforums] again.
• There's just no stopping in a white zone.
• Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an [railforums].
• It's really the only sensible thing to do, if its done properly. Therapeutically there's no danger involved.

 

[Skie]

Apart from 'U' being in the middle!

How else could they get it next to F?

 

[bahnause]

This is what it looks like if done well.

https://ki-bahnhof-anywhere.app.sbb.ch/#/stream/8503000?gleis=31&sektor=A&ankunft=false&layout=stretched-basic&language=EN&api_key=ffacb88be40702c029eefdb222549b4f

(This is a live link, so will display exactly what's going on in real time when you click it)

Or you can use http://www.fiasim.ch to look at all display variants at stations and on the trains. If you use "smart mode" it will only show you the displays physically present at the station.

 

[ComUtoR]

Looks perfect to me. Not.sure what the issue is.

 

[Surreytraveller]

It's very clear. See below for an explanation.

Oveur, Oveur. Roger, Roger

For the benefit of the uninitiated

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2023 ==

I

The use of numbered zones isn't really all that different than the use of coloured zones from BR days. As for the the OP, it's possibly only someone who doesn't need the information that would find it confusing/difficult to read. If, for example, I was travelling with a bicycle, I would be looking for that information, I couldn't give two hoots which zone first class or wheelchair access was in, so I wouldn't read that part.

I never understood it in British Rail days either, as I never saw an explanation anywhere

 

[occone]

Just to chime in with a possible explanation (but not excuse!) for the bad information layout...

The software that's used was almost certainly written when the available technology were the old boxy CRT screens that stations used to have. These were often faded, blurry and not perfectly aligned, to say the least, sometimes with a margin of the page not visible on the screen.

Given the old displays, it makes me think it was advantageous to have the text centre aligned in the screen where it wouldn't bleed off the edges as happens sometimes.

It also wouldn't be surprising if the software physically can't display diagrams of the train. I'd guess that as this information became available, they did what they could and just reported the information as text instead of drawings.

Like Teletext for trains:

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/12/08/09/southeastern2.jpg?quality=75&width=990&crop=3%3A2%2Csmart&auto=webp

A couple of stations near me still has displays with this format, they just swapped the chunky TVs with flat screens. They probably should replace them, but if it works it won't be a priority...