Third rail and toilets

[arabianights]

Alright ladies and gents,

A quick word by way of intro - I qutie like trains, but I don't know much about them*.

That'll do for the intro

Anyway, I was discussing with some colleagues today whether it's possible that there could be a hazard from toilets emptying onto the third rail - in the worst case maybe from heritage trains that empty directly onto the track without plumbing (these exist in India and even France - do they in the uk?) and so one could electrocute oneself through ones third leg in the worst case...

...anyway is there any actual chance of this?

I have a couple more questions but I figure I'll ask one at a time. I haven't found a "beginner's" part of this forum so sorry if I'm sticking a crayon up my nose in an Oxford lecture hall

*I probably know more than the layman, that's about it. I know what a class 37 is!

 

[MCR247]

There is trains without retention tanks in the UK, yes.

Although on a third rail line, it would not be possible to electrocute ones " " as it wouldn't empty straight onto the line, only when flushed

 

[arabianights]

I guess I'm mainly asking about heritage coaches which may not have been designed for third rail, even if the weewee-er is not directly shocked is there a danger of the current arcing through the traill of wee-wee into the traain somehow and causing a fire? I doubt the designers gave it much thought.

 

[jopsuk]

Also- even if you were urinating as it flushed, it would be highly unlikely theat there would be an electrical path- the non-retained loos empty more or less into the middle of the track, whilst the third rail is poisitioned outside the track.

 

[arabianights]

What about the chiltern railways bit shared with the met? Although I doubt they take heritage stock down there.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Up until the 90s trains in the UK used to just drop the toilet waste straight onto the tracks, which included the Mk1 slam door stock running on third rail. I'm not sure if the 442s did too, although the 319s have tanks. As has been said there would be no risk of electrocution as in the UK the toilets don't lead directly to the track, it is via a u-bend so waste is only dumped when flushed. It's not like many older continental trains where you can actually see the track through the bottom of the toilet. Even so, the third rail is outside of the running rails, wheras the toilet pipe is inside the running rails, so some distance from the third rail.

When it comes to the shared sections with London Underground (which includes sections of the District too from Richmond and Wimbledon), I suppose the thing there is that the return conductor is dead centre wheras the toilet drops are offset, and also the centre rail is low voltage (about 200v) so there is less risk of arcing.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I am led to believe that even if you aimed directly at the third rail, it is unlikely your meat and two veg would be fried as it would be in droplets, and unable to complete the circuit.

 

[Masbroughlad]

What a very bizarre thread! :roll:

 

[Wyvern]

Toilets emptied directly on to the track on all trains until very recently, and many were like the continental ones that had no U-bend. Also third rail has been used on what was the Southern Railway for nearly a century with thousands of trains, toilets and passengers.

And yet this may be the first time anyone has thought of this question. Still it took Newton to ask why an apple falls, when no one else had.

 

[flymo]

Those 'Mythbusters' chaps Adam & Jamie tested this myth in some form by peeing directly onto the third rail, rather than standing in the carriage whilst the loo was flushed. Perhaps this scenario might come up some time. The myth that you can get electrocuted when peeing on the third rail was busted. (all said and done...not sure I'd want to try it )hock:

 

[Anon Mouse]

I am led to believe that even if you aimed directly at the third rail, it is unlikely your meat and two veg would be fried as it would be in droplets, and unable to complete the circuit.

I still don't think it would be a good idea to try!

 

[moonrakerz]

IF the current were travel back up the stream of water from the flushed toilet it would almost certainly find another path back to earth via the wet toilet/metal of the coach/wheels.

Electricity will only go through you if you provide a better path to earth than alternative routes.

 

[A-driver]

I don't wish to lower the tone but as a driver on a TOC which runs on 3rd rail lines I can assure you that there is no chance of being electrocuted even if going directly onto the CRE-I can assure you as I have done it a number of times (albeit not deliberately).

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't wish to lower the tone but as a driver on a TOC which runs on 3rd rail lines I can assure you that there is no chance of being electrocuted even if going directly onto the CRE-I can assure you as I have done it a number of times (albeit not deliberately).

Quite - you don't see "upward lightning" from third rails during very rainy weather. That's why your urine flow wouldn't also make a circuit!

 

[Lampshade]

Correct me if I'm wrong but there are no trains without retention tanks that operate over third rail tracks, 455s don't have toilets at all and all other 4xx trains are relatively new. That said, there's no chance it could cause a problem anyway, otherwise there'd be quite a few problems when it rains hock:

 

[Metrailway]

Even if you are urinating directly from the toilet onto the third/fouth rail you are safe from electrocution. Since you relieve yourself inside a car and not on the ground so are isolated from any current. Still I wouldn't try...

 

[Juniper Driver]

Even if you are urinating directly from the toilet onto the third/fouth rail you are safe from electrocution. Since you relieve yourself inside a car and not on the ground so are isolated from any current. Still I wouldn't try...

I wouldn't either.

 

[185]

Cut & Pasted from a BTP Web forum....
Summer, 2008


A man was killed at a busy railway station when he reportedly urinated on the track.

British Transport Police confirmed the 41-year-old was electrocuted at Vauxhall station in south London last week.

He walked on to the track from Platform 1, a BTP spokesman said.

According to reports, the Polish tourist went to find somewhere discreet to go to the toilet but his urine splashed on to the live rail.

He was said to be a married teacher who was visiting the UK to improve his English.

A spokesman for London Ambulance Service said a fast response unit and two ambulances were sent to the station but the man died at the scene.

According to Network Rail, more than 60 people are killed on railway lines each year.

 

[Skimble19]

Since he walked onto the track is it not possible that he actually misplaced his foot, rather than his urine?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Either that or he might have been crouching down (to be even more discreet) so his "outlet pipe" would have been quite close to the rails. Perhaps he was just very well hung

 

[MCR247]

Dirty

 

[Skimble19]

This has definitely got to be a candidate for "Oddest Thread Of The Year"

 

[edinight]

This video will answer all your questions...

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-peeing-on-third-rail-minimyth.html

 

[WatcherZero]

This video will answer all your questions...

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-peeing-on-third-rail-minimyth.html

To be honest they didnt need to move it closer on the second try, an actual realistic stream rather than the bladder of a 80 year old and no rubber shoes would have worked the first time.

 

[Yew]

Those 'Mythbusters' chaps Adam & Jamie tested this myth in some form by peeing directly onto the third rail, rather than standing in the carriage whilst the loo was flushed. Perhaps this scenario might come up some time. The myth that you can get electrocuted when peeing on the third rail was busted. (all said and done...not sure I'd want to try it )hock:

They also did electric fences, also busted

 

[12CSVT]

Not all the 319s have retention tanks, believe it or not

 

[BestWestern]

Correct me if I'm wrong but there are no trains without retention tanks that operate over third rail tracks, 455s don't have toilets at all and all other 4xx trains are relatively new. That said, there's no chance it could cause a problem anyway, otherwise there'd be quite a few problems when it rains hock:

FGW operate over the third rail between Portsmouth Harbour and Redbridge Jcn (just beyond Southampton Central) and Brighton, as well as between Dorchester Jcn and Weymouth, using 158s, 153s (not between Southampton & Portsmouth) and 150/1 & /2 units, none of which have retention tanks. I would doubt that the 442 Wessex units have tanks either, but I don't know.

 

[ukrob]

Also let's not forget that steam locos operate over 3rd rail on charters with both water and steam between the 3rd rail and loco (I'm thinking specifically of injectors). If there was any risk, it wouldn't be allowed.

 

[arabianights]

Thank you for your input gentlemen. Most... refreshing...

 

[tbtc]

I don't wish to lower the tone

I don't think thats possible, on a thread like this