Third Glasgow terminus?

[Bittern]

Reading through the Transport Scotland sight revealed something interesting. I have no idea how old this document is, but it talks about a potential rebuilding/opening of St Enoch station on a new location behind the shopping centre.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/reports/j10194a/j10194a-01.pdf

Now, something like this will have to happen at some point. How many more platforms can you build at Central? Sure, you've still got the other half of the low level that could be reopened, but wouldn't a better long term solution be to provide a new terminus?

On the other hand, where would it go exactly? I looked at the location mentioned in the document on Google maps and there isn't much room at all. Perhaps it could be built on a bridge over the Clyde? But then that's not exactly city centre and that's still not much room.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Hm. I doubt it somehow. Remember the two extra platforms recently opened at GLC were for to support the now cancelled GARL.

Of more importance would be Crossrail and the not insignificant amount of work to build a new station somewhere around Argyle Street / High Street / Saltmarket. That could become a major third station, and in so doing Crossrail would reduce any need for extra capacity at GLC and GLQ.

 

[rail-britain]

Reading through the Transport Scotland sight revealed something interesting. I have no idea how old this document is
Now, something like this will have to happen at some point

This document refers to various options, so they all have to be read in context
There won't be any major issues at Glasgow Central, as the document refers to other changes that will take place, primarily the transfer of Whifflet and Edinburgh (via Shotts) services via Glasgow Central Low Level
Other services would be re-routed via the new CrossRail, City Tunnel, and/or the new St Enoch station

This is all long-term strategy

The new St Enoch Station would be an option with the new CrossRail project
This is a relatively easy construction as the ground already exists (currently a car park and waste ground)

 

[yorksrob]

Alas without that beautiful trainshed :cry:

 

[Ivo]

Should HS2 ever reach Glasgow, would people expect the Crossrail station to become the HS2 terminus, or would you expect one of Central and Queen Street - or even a fourth terminal somewhere beneath the city?

 

[CarterUSM]

Should HS2 ever reach Glasgow, would people expect the Crossrail station to become the HS2 terminus, or would you expect one of Central and Queen Street - or even a fourth terminal somewhere beneath the city?

I wouldn't see a problem with Central accommodating it. Long long time away though!

 

[route:oxford]

Dig deep below Buchanan Street and build a 6 car platform for HS1 - with access direct to the subway, Queen Street and Central.

Being sensible, this wouldn't be a "terminus" as such, so trains could scoot North to a railcare facility and clear the platforms - or continue to Stirling

 

[Geezertronic]

I wouldn't see a problem with Central accommodating it. Long long time away though!

I really can't see why they can't work their way south while the London end works its way north, but that is for a different thread

 

[Bittern]

This document refers to various options, so they all have to be read in context
There won't be any major issues at Glasgow Central, as the document refers to other changes that will take place, primarily the transfer of Whifflet and Edinburgh (via Shotts) services via Glasgow Central Low Level

Putting more pressure on the low level which already sees a train every ten minutes in both directions.

Other services would be re-routed via the new CrossRail, City Tunnel, and/or the new St Enoch station

This is all long-term strategy

Is Crossrail still on? Absolutely nothing has happened in relation to it that I've seen. As for the "City Tunnel", I'm going to have to do a bit more research on that as that sounds quite intriguing.

The new St Enoch Station would be an option with the new CrossRail project
This is a relatively easy construction as the ground already exists (currently a car park and waste ground)

Is this the car park in question?

If so, it's on the site of the junction where the former routes into the station split from the avoiding/still existing route. It's also not very big and doesn't look big enough to hold a reasonably sized terminus.

 

[Liam]

If so, it's on the site of the junction where the former routes into the station split from the avoiding/still existing route. It's also not very big and doesn't look big enough to hold a reasonably sized terminus.

How big would it need to be? It could only be used for services through Paisley (Canal and Gilmour Street), so maximum somewhere like 12 tph in and out. Queen Street deals with that with 7 platforms and its footprint is smaller than the car park in the picture. It could possibly even be a V shaped station with platforms towards the Airdrie-Bathgate line.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Is Crossrail still on?

No.
And some of the real estate assets have since been sold for develoment.

As I've remarked on here a few times in the past, I believe Glasgow's biggest blunder was failing to take advantage of the massive land clearances south of the Clyde, while building the M8 to M74 link, to also link the lines into Queen St to those into Central, via a new chord at the south end of the single track river bridge at Clyde Street.

 

[CarterUSM]

Interestingly, though probably of little consequence, i have noticed that the former gorbals line from just before Eglinton St tunnels at Gushetfaulds is still clear after all the M-way works. Obviously it would be difficult, if nigh impossible, to provide a reasonable link from this direction however. Don't think we will ever see another Glasgow Terminus either, Central still has capacity , slightly more so if/when Whifflet services move to low level. I think it unlikely the Shotts services will move, it is rather congested down there as it is, and would require quite some timetabling i'd think. It is easy to say now, but i really think St Enoch station should have stayed open.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No.
And some of the real estate assets have since been sold for develoment.

As I've remarked on here a few times in the past, I believe Glasgow's biggest blunder was failing to take advantage of the massive land clearances south of the Clyde, while building the M8 to M74 link, to also link the lines into Queen St to those into Central, via a new chord at the south end of the single track river bridge at Clyde Street.

I thought the city and union bridge was still double tracked Dave, is it not? See's little traffic to still merit it i suppose!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I really can't see why they can't work their way south while the London end works its way north, but that is for a different thread

You are right Geezer! I would be disappointed if that didn't happen. If the whole scheme goes ahead of course! In for a penny/pound etc!

 

[Whistler40145]

Isn't the City and Union line on the list to be electrified?

 

[rail-britain]

Is this the car park in question?

Between Shipbank Loan and Merchant Loan
There is enough room for a terminus station with 6 platforms, plus the through 2 platforms, giving 6 in total

CrossRail is still on, but not the degree it was
It is a simple upgrade with electrification
This forms the final part of the Glasgow South electrification
There is some debate over the proposed station at West Street (now that the M74 is directly above this location)

Finally, search the document for "tunnel" and I think this proposal will shock you!
I am surprised noone has picked up on that one

 

[MacCookie]

Reading through the Transport Scotland sight revealed something interesting. I have no idea how old this document is, but it talks about a potential rebuilding/opening of St Enoch station on a new location behind the shopping centre.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/reports/j10194a/j10194a-01.pdf

Now, something like this will have to happen at some point. How many more platforms can you build at Central? Sure, you've still got the other half of the low level that could be reopened, but wouldn't a better long term solution be to provide a new terminus?

On the other hand, where would it go exactly? I looked at the location mentioned in the document on Google maps and there isn't much room at all. Perhaps it could be built on a bridge over the Clyde? But then that's not exactly city centre and that's still not much room.

That's one appendix of many in STPR (published 2008). I'd suggest that you read all of STPR Report 3 (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...publications-and-consultations/j10194a-00.htm) to understand what Appendix A actually is.

If all you're interested in is the outcome of STPR, perhaps just go straight to Appendix D (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...publications-and-consultations/j10194a-09.htm).

There's also been some interesting discussion about possible schemes at St Enoch on scot-rail if you're wanting to dig around (http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/messages/search/all/?search=enoch).

Ewan

 

[Bittern]

I've no idea how many times I've looked through scot-rail on St Enoch station. I think I've exhausted the internet looking for discussion on that station.

Between Shipbank Loan and Merchant Loan
There is enough room for a terminus station with 6 platforms, plus the through 2 platforms, giving 6 in total

So it is the carpark pictured then. I'm assuming you mean 4 terminus platforms?

Finally, search the document for "tunnel" and I think this proposal will shock you!
I am surprised noone has picked up on that one

I did, and to be honest, I think that's just not going to happen. Ever.

 

[Train Pilchard]

Reading through the Transport Scotland sight revealed something interesting. I have no idea how old this document is, but it talks about a potential rebuilding/opening of St Enoch station on a new location behind the shopping centre.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/reports/j10194a/j10194a-01.pdf

Now, something like this will have to happen at some point. How many more platforms can you build at Central? Sure, you've still got the other half of the low level that could be reopened, but wouldn't a better long term solution be to provide a new terminus?

On the other hand, where would it go exactly? I looked at the location mentioned in the document on Google maps and there isn't much room at all. Perhaps it could be built on a bridge over the Clyde? But then that's not exactly city centre and that's still not much room.

Can I ask what you mean by this?

 

[Bittern]

Can I ask what you mean by this?

There used to be two island platforms. The existing one is only half of the original low level station. You can still see the tunnel to the old platform (and I believe part of the old platform itself) as you enter on a train from Argyle Street.

 

[rail-britain]

So it is the carpark pictured then. I'm assuming you mean 4 terminus platforms?

There is no car park there, it is currently waste land and overgrown, bordered by fences and walls
The car park is adjacent and it is no longer possible to build there, unless a CPO was applied