Third fatality at Turnham Green station since December

[thomalex]

Another person dies at Turnham Green station after being hit by train - Chiswick Calendar News

Image above: Turnham Green station Person pronounced dead at the scene Another person has died at Turnham Green station after being hit by a train, the London Ambulance Service has […]

chiswickcalendar.co.uk

I've just come across this article which describes a third fatality at Turnham Green station since December which is horrendous. What on earth is going on here? The article describes how:

Commuters who use the station complain of overcrowding and that the platform next to the station’s stairs is too small, meaning passengers congregate at the top of the stairs creating a crush of people right next to the train. Critics say overcrowding would be dealt with were both platforms used and if Piccadilly Line services stopped at Turnham Green all the time.

It seems to me that some action needs to happen here and presumably if Piccadilly line services also stopped that would (a) remove regular, fast moving trains from driving through and (b) empty the platforms quicker with more frequent departing trains. And at the very least there should be an immediate speed restriction. Yes there would be a slight knock on across the network but when there is an issue of this magnitude surely it cannot go on ignored.

 

[greatkingrat]

I'm not sure the overcrowding is relevant - it appears they were all deliberate acts, not people accidentally falling off a busy platform. If Piccadilly line trains did stop at Turnham Green all day, you might find the problem just moves elsewhere, like Ravenscourt Park.

 

[Horizon22]

Another person dies at Turnham Green station after being hit by train - Chiswick Calendar News

Image above: Turnham Green station Person pronounced dead at the scene Another person has died at Turnham Green station after being hit by a train, the London Ambulance Service has […]

chiswickcalendar.co.uk

I've just come across this article which describes a third fatality at Turnham Green station since December which is horrendous. What on earth is going on here? The article describes how:

Commuters who use the station complain of overcrowding and that the platform next to the station’s stairs is too small, meaning passengers congregate at the top of the stairs creating a crush of people right next to the train. Critics say overcrowding would be dealt with were both platforms used and if Piccadilly Line services stopped at Turnham Green all the time.

It seems to me that some action needs to happen here and presumably if Piccadilly line services also stopped that would (a) remove regular, fast moving trains from driving through and (b) empty the platforms quicker with more frequent departing trains. And at the very least there should be an immediate speed restriction. Yes there would be a slight knock on across the network but when there is an issue of this magnitude surely it cannot go on ignored.

Have you read the article because it also goes onto say:

TfL did not offer a comment on the most recent casualty but confirmed to The Chiswick Calendar the three fatalities since December 2022 were all ‘deliberate non-suspicious acts’.

It is unfortunately seemingly a hotspot for this sort of behaviour. It is rare on the London Underground to have such arrangements of "fast" services but as said, it would just shift the problem elsewhere potentially. Piccadilly line trains should stop at Turnham Green anyway (it's an odd set up) but correlation does not equal causation.

As an aside, is the timetable really that tight that a 2-3 minute (dwell and deceleration/acceleration) additional time would really lead to "reducing the regularity of the Piccadilly Line service to Heathrow."?

 

[Dstock7080]

Turnham Green: November-March:
9/12 19.44 eastbound (District) not hit by train, recovered to platform.
9/1 10.47 westbound
19/2 13.30 eastbound

 

[Taunton]

As an aside, is the timetable really that tight that a 2-3 minute (dwell and deceleration/acceleration) additional time would really lead to "reducing the regularity of the Piccadilly Line service to Heathrow."?

Surely it would just eliminate the 2-3 minutes wasted being stopped outside Acton Town waiting for a platform ...

 

[bramling]

Another person dies at Turnham Green station after being hit by train - Chiswick Calendar News

Image above: Turnham Green station Person pronounced dead at the scene Another person has died at Turnham Green station after being hit by a train, the London Ambulance Service has […]

chiswickcalendar.co.uk

I've just come across this article which describes a third fatality at Turnham Green station since December which is horrendous. What on earth is going on here? The article describes how:



It seems to me that some action needs to happen here and presumably if Piccadilly line services also stopped that would (a) remove regular, fast moving trains from driving through and (b) empty the platforms quicker with more frequent departing trains. And at the very least there should be an immediate speed restriction. Yes there would be a slight knock on across the network but when there is an issue of this magnitude surely it cannot go on ignored.

Or put barriers along the platform edges and simply don’t stop Piccadilly trains here at all, which to me would be the preferred solution.

However if none of these fatalities were accidental then it would be very much a solution looking for a problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2023 ==

Have you read the article because it also goes onto say:



It is unfortunately seemingly a hotspot for this sort of behaviour. It is rare on the London Underground to have such arrangements of "fast" services but as said, it would just shift the problem elsewhere potentially. Piccadilly line trains should stop at Turnham Green anyway (it's an odd set up) but correlation does not equal causation.

As an aside, is the timetable really that tight that a 2-3 minute (dwell and deceleration/acceleration) additional time would really lead to "reducing the regularity of the Piccadilly Line service to Heathrow."?

ISTR it’s more to do with the way the signalling is arranged. The signalling is not optimised for stopping trains (doing so at the extremes of the day isn’t a problem with lower frequency). Modifying the signalling would introduce a cost, and being on a fast section of line could well also have design challenges to do it in a way which doesn’t affect the headway.

 

[AlterEgo]

Journalism takes another knock. The crowding of the station is not a relevant part of the story.

It’s one of the few places on the Tube network with fast trains and the highest likelihood of a successful suicide bid.

 

[Horizon22]

Surely it would just eliminate the 2-3 minutes wasted being stopped outside Acton Town waiting for a platform ...

You’d think!

 

[Chris M]

ISTR it’s more to do with the way the signalling is arranged. [...] Modifying the signalling would introduce a cost.

And given that the whole line is overdue a complete resignalling, TfL aren't going to spend money they don't have on fixing something that isn't guaranteed to fix a problem that isn't necessarily anything other than a statistical blip.

 

[bramling]

And given that the whole line is overdue a complete resignalling, TfL aren't going to spend money they don't have on fixing something that isn't guaranteed to fix a problem that isn't necessarily anything other than a statistical blip.

ISTR it has been stated that this will be looked at as part of Piccadilly resignalling, whenever that happens. Turnham Green will not gain an all-day Piccadilly service before that unless something else materially changes.

FWIW, my personal view is Turnham Green should not be served by the Picc Line. It already has a frequent service provided by the District Line, and there are wider benefits to the Piccadilly having a fast run for the benefit of those further out.

 

[Mawkie]

What on earth is going on here?

I would have thought it quite obvious. People who want to commit suicide select this station as they have a high liklihood of being successful. It's frankly revolting for that publication to use these deaths as a veiled attempt to bring up a long running campaign to make Pic trains stop there throughout the day.

It seems to me that some action needs to happen here and presumably if Piccadilly line services also stopped that would (a) remove regular, fast moving trains from driving through and (b) empty the platforms quicker with more frequent departing trains. And at the very least there should be an immediate speed restriction.

I think this is a flawed analysis - removing regular, fast moving trains from Turmham Green is not the answer. There was a Person Under a Train incident at Barons Court District line west a couple of months ago - speed wasn't a factor. Another PUT at Covent Garden at the end of last year - with a 20mph permanent speed restriction upon entering the platform. Another at Cally Road in January - again, 25 mph.

If it wasn't at Turmham Green, it would be somewhere else.

Anecdotally, it seems to me there is an uplift in suicides around Christmas and New Year, but I haven't seen the figures on that. So I suspect '3 in the last 3 months' isn't a true representation of the actual numbers.

 

[matt_world2004]

Maybe tfl should consider installing barriers on the fast piccadilly line platforms, like you get on the national rail network. Small things that slow down people's attempt to commit suicide often have a big impact on the number of suicides.

 

[Horizon22]

Anecdotally, it seems to me there is an uplift in suicides around Christmas and New Year, but I haven't seen the figures on that. So I suspect '3 in the last 3 months' isn't a true representation of the actual numbers.

Sadly, this has been true for many years with another one around late summer.

 

[43066]

It is unfortunately seemingly a hotspot for this sort of behaviour.

Indeed. On the mainline network there are also “hotspots” where these sad are known to happen frequently.

There’s a “gentlemens’ agreement” amongst media organisations not to report details of fatalities, generally including specific locations, as it can incite copy cat incidents. This strategy is (rightly) replicated by the forum.

Maybe tfl should consider installing barriers on the fast piccadilly line platforms, like you get on the national rail network. Small things that slow down people's attempt to commit suicide often have a big impact on the number of suicides.

Agreed. There are many examples of these scattered around the mainline network (especially little used platforms on the “fasts” of which we have many on my patch) which make a discernible difference, counter intuitive as that might seem.

 

[Jimini]

There’s a “gentlemens’ agreement” amongst media organisations not to report details of fatalities, generally including specific locations, as it can incite copy cat incidents. This strategy is (rightly) replicated by the forum.

I've noticed that the hashtags the National Rail website use can give away details, generally by hashtagging the station that the incident occured at.

 

[greatkingrat]

If you look at the overall figures, suicides have been roughly constant for the last decade. So while fences may deter people at one particular station, it seems they may just be moving the problem elsewhere.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Agreed. There are many examples of these scattered around the mainline network (especially little used platforms on the “fasts” of which we have many on my patch) which make a discernible difference, counter intuitive as that might seem.

Ditto. Often used Ravenscourt Park for a prolonged period many years ago so understand the potential issues on that stretch of the District/Piccadilly, but as 43066 says, on parts of the main line network much mitigation has long since been in place for some years at a number of locations, although one such location is not suitable for those measures (train service wise) and is still a bit of a (potential) hot spot for such behaviour. That said, having known two of the Station Managers from said location, they had to deal with numerous such instances going back 30-40 years, so regrettably this is nothing new.