Things I've Changed My Mind About

[AndyLandy]

I've gone the opposite way. Since the increase in 150s operated by Northern I've started to enjoy it when they turn up as they offer something different from the normal Pacer on the Lincoln to Sheffield services. I think it was the LM Farewell 150 tour that caused me to have a re-think.

I keep flip-flopping on my opinions of 15x units, but that's largely because of the different maintenance regimes that different TOCs have for them. I've always found SWTs 158/159 units to be very comfortable, but I once had the misfortune to travel on a TransPennine 158, which was grotty and squalid inside. And whilst the FGW 158s aren't the most comfortable train for a long distance ride on the Portsmouth-Cardiff line, they've come a very long way since the days of Wales & West.

Regarding Northern, my experience is that they almost never do anything with the train interiors. Last time I did the Mid-Cheshire line, got a Pacer on the outbound. I've never liked the things, so my reaction was as expected. On the return journey, we got a 150. First reaction: "Ooh, much better"... then I boarded. The interior was just as run down and battered as the 142 on the way out. Both 142 and 150 were sporting freshly painted Northern liveries though!

Conversely, I've always thought of 156s as the poor man's 158, but once on the MCR again, a 156 turned up. Freshly refurbished, nice blue carpets, table seats, comfortable chairs with new upholstery. Luxury! Shame I was only on it for about 20 minutes. One of those for the hour-plus journey to Manchester would have been most welcome!

 

[northwichcat]

150s. I used to really like them, but a surfiet of them in recent times (now Northern has a lot more, following the LM cascade) has got me thinking they are no better/ worse than a Pacer.

Is that down to a higher number having the original interior or possibly the 150s being 8 or so years older than they were when Northern took over?
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Conversely, I've always thought of 156s as the poor man's 158, but once on the MCR again, a 156 turned up. Freshly refurbished, nice blue carpets, table seats, comfortable chairs with new upholstery. Luxury! Shame I was only on it for about 20 minutes. One of those for the hour-plus journey to Manchester would have been most welcome!

Those are the best units that turn up on the line now.

Under FNW there were occasional 158, 175 and loco hauled mk2 workings. (The loco hauled working towards the end of the franchise was covering for 2 x 158s that FNW had subleased to TPE.)

 

[Welshman]

Well it is of course, but if you post an inaccurate comment you must expect to be picked up on it... so in that respect if you have changed your mind on HS2 because you believe that the sole reason for HS2 is saving time between London and Birmingham then your mind might be changed again if you are better informed

I think I am aware of all the arguments for and against HS2, and as I said before this is not the place to start rehearsing them.

My original posting was a light-hearted comment, and I'm sorry it seems to have provoked you so much.

 

[tbtc]

Is that down to a higher number having the original interior or possibly the 150s being 8 or so years older than they were when Northern took over?

I think possibly the latter - having had little experience of 150s in recent years (for a long time the only time you saw one in Sheffield was filling in for a Pacer on the bi-hourly Hope Valley service), now there are a number working Neville Hill duties (Leeds - Castleford - Barnsley - Sheffield seems to be a regular haunt), and my tastes must have changed in the time they were away. They seem no better/ worse than Pacers to me (despite the hatred that some enthusiasts seem to have for Pacers, there doesn't seem to be much "rage" about 150s).

Funny how your opinion of a class changes when you start using it again - sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

 

[BestWestern]

I keep flip-flopping on my opinions of 15x units, but that's largely because of the different maintenance regimes that different TOCs have for them. I've always found SWTs 158/159 units to be very comfortable, but I once had the misfortune to travel on a TransPennine 158, which was grotty and squalid inside. And whilst the FGW 158s aren't the most comfortable train for a long distance ride on the Portsmouth-Cardiff line, they've come a very long way since the days of Wales & West.

Ironically, many of the current FGW 158's are the ex-TPE fleet! They were pretty rancid prior to their refurb, they then got much better but are now slowly falling to bits again

 

[gnolife]

Pacers - I used to really hate them (comes of twice daily use of one from Manchester Picc to Navigation Road), but have come to accept them, but not exactly like them since I've started travelling a route where they don't really make much of the screeching noise (Manchester Picc - Rose Hill/Marple [usually via Hyde] - although I do choose to bail at Guide Bridge for the 323 that turns up 10 mins later.)

Metrolink - my opinion of this has gone the other way, I really dislike the new M5000 trams, because I think its nice not to have to stand from Altrincham to Whitefield or other similar 'long hauls' (at least by Metrolink's standards)

g4s at Manchester Piccadilly - I used to think they did something useful at MAN

 

[Tracked]

Up til a few years ago I used to avoid 158's, memories of catching them from work and always being standing room only. Since then they've started appearing on local services alongside pacers and I quite like them now. Went on some EMT ones a few months back and they were good too, so it's not more to do with my dislike with Pacers ...


HST's, years ago I used to hate it when they turned up instead of 47-hauled mk2's, now I like catching them - especially the Cross Country ones, because they don't smell of toilet like the voyagers, and I liked those when they first started and before I experienced the toilet & overcrowding problems with them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Metrolink - my opinion of this has gone the other way, I really dislike the new M5000 trams, because I think its nice not to have to stand from Altrincham to Whitefield or other similar 'long hauls' (at least by Metrolink's standards)

I am with you all the way in what you say about the new yellow M5000 units compared to the original T68 units, which do have more seats and a better seating layout.

 

[northwichcat]

Funny how your opinion of a class changes when you start using it again - sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

My opinion of 150s has certainly varied depending what type of interior layout it has, how full the train is and what other trains I had travelled on that day.

When FNW introduced the refurbished 150s I wasn't using the train that often and when I did it was mainly off-peak services so my opinion of the refurbished 150s was initially a very good one.

Then one Summer Saturday I needed to do a journey to Preston and the 150s I used were packed and I noticed how there literally wasn't any proper leg room on the facing seats.

In 2006 I made a Knutsford-Leeds journey during a heatwave. (The same day I had travelled on an air conditioned 185 for the first time.) Then waiting at Manchester Piccadilly for a delayed service to Chester a Regional Railways livered 150 turned up to work the service complete with the original seating and BR notices on board. I struggled to comprehend the fact that this was the same type of train as the refurbished 150s and wondered where it had been dug out from.

The only time I have been on a ATW 150 (with 2+2 seating and tables) was just after alighting a Pendolino and just before boarding a 156, so while that should have been the best 150 I've been on, it felt like the inferior unit I had been on that day.
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Ironically, many of the current FGW 158's are the ex-TPE fleet! They were pretty rancid prior to their refurb, they then got much better but are now slowly falling to bits again

The 158s with ATN (who had the TPE sets before the separate franchise was formed), FNW and CT all needed new seat covers but none of the operators mentioned seemed to care!

Incidentally the dynamic lines seat covers that FGW fitted to some of the 142s now look in a sorry state and the seats with the worse of them have been replaced by Northern seat covers (to give a mismatched interior.)

I think imagine this is partly down to the difficulty in getting proper fitting seat covers for defunct seat designs and the fact that train seats are a lot less likely to be empty than 10 years ago.

 

[Whistler40145]

I didn't like Class 390 Pendolinos, I felt at times they didn't give a comfortable ride & could be quite cold in Winter.

 

[Geezertronic]

I didn't like Class 390 Pendolinos, I felt at times they didn't give a comfortable ride & could be quite cold in Winter.

They can be quite cold in Summer and bloody boiling in Winter if the aircon isn't set accordingly - annoying sometimes.

 

[185]

I used to think that FirstGroup were an honest, reliable, trustworthy, decent transport company intent on inproving the transport industry.

That thought lasted less than 0.6 of a second.

 

[Meridian richard]

142s have turned on me too.... Used to avoid them at all costs, but now I love a good pacer run. Especially on the bus seats!
Never really hated 144s but I feel they are slowly going down in my opinion.

 

[trentside]

142s have turned on me too.... Used to avoid them at all costs, but now I love a good pacer run. Especially on the bus seats!
Never really hated 144s but I feel they are slowly going down in my opinion.

I now use Pacers so rarely that I must admit they're something of a treat - just for being different. I used to use them all the time, but now it's just 153s, 156s and 158s! Like you I never really minded the 144s in the first place.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

I used to think that FirstGroup were an honest, reliable, trustworthy, decent transport company intent on inproving the transport industry.

That thought lasted less than 0.6 of a second.

You are suggesting something else?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

142s have turned on me too.... Used to avoid them at all costs, but now I love a good pacer run. Especially on the bus seats!

Never had you down as a masochist..