Theresa May - should she resign?

[fowler9]

I am a crazy lefty and I voted Theresa May should resign and let the party sort it out. I voted for this as I believe in democracy and the Conservatives won the most seats. As I understand it this country is a parliamentary democracy and as such we don't vote for which person we want to lead the country but which party.

If I can add one further thing most of the Labour "Far left" policies are ones that work quite well in other European countries that aren't viewed as having a "Far left" government.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If I can add one further thing most of the Labour "Far left" policies are ones that work quite well in other European countries that aren't viewed as having a "Far left" government.

Fine, let all those who see the benefits accruing of "far left" policies that work quite well in other European counties you refer to, let them relocate to those countries and enjoy life under those regimes.

 

[fowler9]

Fine, let all those who see the benefits accruing of "far left" policies that work quite well in other European counties you refer to, let them relocate to those countries and enjoy life under those regimes.

Ah right Paul, if we don't like it we can leave. Such a charming argument given the Tories have a minority. Except we can't all leave because we are leaving the EU.

 

[SS4]

Fine, let all those who see the benefits accruing of "far left" policies that work quite well in other European counties you refer to, let them relocate to those countries and enjoy life under those regimes.

That may no longer be possible in a couple of years thanks to the rightists preying on the fears of the working class

 

[backontrack]

I'm in two minds yes I think Teresa May should go but the person the Tories need to defeat Corbyn they wont choose and also the problem being she is not even a UK member of Parliament ie Ruth Davidson.

Maybe the Tories should let Corbyn form a Government and then people can really see what a left wing government is like and of course it would require an alliance of every party left and centre left, of course I expect Corbyn would call another election fairly quickly after he's handed out free iphone's to everyone and various other bribes.

Meanwhile McDonnell is calling for Mass Protests to try and force the Government out and the lefty unions are talking about co-ordinated industrial action but apparently that's the kind of government 40% of voters want.

Also has anybody got a large Toilet because that's where the UK is heading.

Absolutely hilarious. This is genuinely what the right are coming up with.

 

[fowler9]

Absolutely hilarious. This is genuinely what the right are coming up with.

Save yourselves. The Commies want it to be like North Korea!!!!

 

[Howardh]

Also has anybody got a large Toilet because that's where the UK is heading.

How does the middle of the Atlantic sound??

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm in two minds yes I think Teresa May should go but the person the Tories need to defeat Corbyn they wont choose and also the problem being she is not even a UK member of Parliament ie Ruth Davidson.

Maybe the Tories should let Corbyn form a Government and then people can really see what a left wing government is like and of course it would require an alliance of every party left and centre left, of course I expect Corbyn would call another election fairly quickly after he's handed out free iphone's to everyone and various other bribes.

Meanwhile McDonnell is calling for Mass Protests to try and force the Government out and the lefty unions are talking about co-ordinated industrial action but apparently that's the kind of government 40% of voters want.

Also has anybody got a large Toilet because that's where the UK is heading.

Has someone had a bad day? Cheer up, the sun is shining.

 

[47802]

Absolutely hilarious. This is genuinely what the right are coming up with.

Well I'm not particularly right wing by most standards, why is it hilarious, is it not fact that for Corbyn to form a Government he would need some sort of alliance with the SNP, Welsh Nationalists, LibDems, Green Party etc.

Ok did Mcdonnell not say that about mass protests?

 

[fowler9]

Anyway, lets play nice. “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.” Abraham Lincoln. (Not sure what the forum rules are on quotes).

 

[AlterEgo]

Ah right Paul, if we don't like it we can leave. Such a charming argument.

Yes, this really is the pinnacle of democracy - majoritarian tyranny and if you don't like it then go somewhere else. It's so brilliantly nuanced, sympathetic, and wise (!).

 

[sk688]

Are you saying that the Prime Minister has not met any of those who survived the tragedy and that any statements to the opposite are untrue?

Those left-wing activists who infiltrated the residents would have seen the Prime Minister doing what you wished would have seized upon such an opportunity with relish. That is why we have security agencies to advise on such matters. Neither HM The Queen nor Corbyn would have been the targets of the groupings to which I allude.

Initially, no

On her FIRST visit, she only met the firefighters and emergency services, not the t residents, Whereas the Queen, Corbyn and Sadiq Khan did

She later did visit the victims in hospital, and met some survivors in a church, but the Independent reported that she declined to speak to any of the survivors outside the church, which led to her being deemed a coward

I now await proof of the " left wing activists" who " infiltrated" the residents

 

[sk688]

Paul once again your staunch defence of May is quite bewildering. May first visited the site in a "private visit" and only met the fire crews involved. She was directly asked to go and meet the victims and refused. She only went to see the victims after she was told it would be a good idea to. Security is a nonsense answer and is merely an excuse as there were plenty of police and her personal security force there. She is a robot who doesn't seem to have a bit of humanity in her. She only does interviews in controlled environments so she can answer every question in the same robotic manner. She has to go. Let the Tories sort it out once she has gone.

Seconded

Look at her Newsnight interview with Emily Maitlis. Parroting a select set of phrases , a lack of empathy and a refusal to accept government culpability

And people think she should stay as Prime Minister

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I now await proof of the " left wing activists" who " infiltrated" the residents

Perhaps the television news that you watch did not show the professionally produced Socialist Worker headed placards stating naught of the disaster who were intermingled with those local residents whose placards stated their grief.

 

[Senex]

Look at her Newsnight interview with Emily Maitlis. Parroting a select set of phrases , a lack of empathy and a refusal to accept government culpability.

When did it become part of the job-description for any senior minister to be all touchy feely and emote massively in public, rather than be competent (and I'm not saying that May is, but rather disputing what Maitlis seems to regard as necessary behaviour) and get on with the job in hand to the best of their abilities? Is this all part of the post-Diana scene, where the public display of feelings is regarded as all important? I can't imagine the taciturn but highly effective Clement Attlee ever doing what now seems to be regarded by many as required.

As for government culpability, why is government culpable? It looks as if there is a very strong potential case for local authority culpability, especially if what has been reported in another thread about the non-compatability with standards of the insulation-panels used is correct. And it certainly looks as if the local authority response to the disaster has been less than impressive. But why should it be assumed nowadays after any catastrophe that it is automatically and immediately the government that is culpable? Why should culpability be automatically assigned to the top level and not to the level where the decisions where taken? Ministers, even those in a Labour government, cannot be expected to know everything, and their civil servants cannot be expected to have unlimited facts immediately to hand. Don't we expect too much of these people?

 

[takno]

Perhaps the television news that you watch did not show the professionally produced Socialist Worker headed placards stating naught of the disaster who were intermingled with those local residents whose placards stated their grief.

Infiltration is a bit of a strong word. The Social Workers are few in number and are an increasingly avoided fringe movement even within left-of-mainstream politics. Most of what they do is turn up at any even vaguely leftish demonstrations with a pile of placards and hand them out to all-comers. The result is that you see a lot of their placards and assume they are having some influence over what is happening, when in practice people just took a placard because they are fun to wave.

I'm not even sure they have anything you could call a manifesto other than getting their name on as many placards as possible.

 

[SS4]

When did it become part of the job-description for any senior minister to be all touchy feely and emote massively in public, rather than be competent

When charisma became important than competency and party leaders had to sell themselves like US Presidents. Tony Blair was the earliest example I remember but there may be earlier examples

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Perhaps the television news that you watch did not show the professionally produced Socialist Worker headed placards stating naught of the disaster who were intermingled with those local residents whose placards stated their grief.

Ever since I can remember the SWP (and before that, IS) have produced posters for demonstrations, it is the one thing that they are really good at! Personally, I wish they wouldn't! It certainly doesn't mean that the people holding the placards are SWP supporters! Check it out next time you attend a demo!

 

[fowler9]

When did it become part of the job-description for any senior minister to be all touchy feely and emote massively in public, rather than be competent (and I'm not saying that May is, but rather disputing what Maitlis seems to regard as necessary behaviour) and get on with the job in hand to the best of their abilities? Is this all part of the post-Diana scene, where the public display of feelings is regarded as all important? I can't imagine the taciturn but highly effective Clement Attlee ever doing what now seems to be regarded by many as required.

As for government culpability, why is government culpable? It looks as if there is a very strong potential case for local authority culpability, especially if what has been reported in another thread about the non-compatability with standards of the insulation-panels used is correct. And it certainly looks as if the local authority response to the disaster has been less than impressive. But why should it be assumed nowadays after any catastrophe that it is automatically and immediately the government that is culpable? Why should culpability be automatically assigned to the top level and not to the level where the decisions where taken? Ministers, even those in a Labour government, cannot be expected to know everything, and their civil servants cannot be expected to have unlimited facts immediately to hand. Don't we expect too much of these people?

If a local authority has its budget cut to death by the government then the government has a direct involvement. I'm sure you will tell me now that one of the richest economies in the world has no money left to give. Forgive me if I am being presumtuous.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If a local authority has its budget cut to death by the government then the government has a direct involvement. I'm sure you will tell me now that one of the richest economies in the world has no money left to give. Forgive me if I am being presumtuous.

I note that the national debt of all the so-called leading richest economies such that of America and the amount of debt it owes to China alone is something that seems to be de rigueur. It still does not alter the fact that those countries live on borrowed monies.

 

[AlterEgo]

Perhaps the television news that you watch did not show the professionally produced Socialist Worker headed placards stating naught of the disaster who were intermingled with those local residents whose placards stated their grief.

Were the residents unhappy at their presence? If not, then who cares?

 

[SS4]

I note that the national debt of all the so-called leading richest economies such that of America and the amount of debt it owes to China alone is something that seems to be de rigueur. It still does not alter the fact that those countries live on borrowed monies.

As a logical extension countries can also be creditors. Everyone owes money to everyone else but nobody will collect whilst they believe the debt can be serviced (it's more profitable to collect interest than the collect the principal)

It's disingenuous to state that because countries borrow money it's acceptable for them to strip local authority funding.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe Theresa May has as much warmth as Margaret Thatcher. Should she step down, that would hurt the Brexit talks with the EU.

As has been pointed out by some journalists - negotiations with the DUP (effectively the Northern Irish Conservatives) haven't gone well for May and the DUP are very small in comparison to the size of the Conservative Party. If she fairs so badly negotiating with the DUP, she has no chance of getting anything out of negotiations with the EU where the UK government are very small in comparison to size of the EU and will have more opposing views.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's disingenuous to state that because countries borrow money it's acceptable for them to strip local authority funding.

For the sake of other contributors, can you inform everyone on the thread in a posting of the actual posting that made that comparison emboldened above to which you refer to above.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Were the residents unhappy at their presence? If not, then who cares?

The residents would be so full of their personal grief as not to consider the point that you make.

Anyone who sees nothing to care about such a cynical attempt to use the tragedy for their own extreme left-wing political ends needs to have a lesson in common decency.

 

[AlterEgo]

The residents would be so full of their personal grief as not to consider the point that you make.

Anyone who sees nothing to care about such a cynical attempt to use the tragedy for their own extreme left-wing political ends needs to have a lesson in common decency.

So you assume...

Do you reckon there were many Tory voters in those flats? Have you said anything that implies you even care about the residents?

I don't think a lesson in common decency should come from you, so pipe down about it for once, instead of incessantly trying to lecture people from your imaginary soapbox in this part of the forum.

 

[backontrack]

Well I'm not particularly right wing by most standards, why is it hilarious, is it not fact that for Corbyn to form a Government he would need some sort of alliance with the SNP, Welsh Nationalists, LibDems, Green Party etc.

What's that about a coalition of chaos?

Orange is the new blue and all that.

 

[fowler9]

Theresa May should resign. Her performance following the Grenfell Tower fire was shall we say below par and was the latest in a string of below par performances. Many are complaining about political point scoring over this incident, I don't think people asking what the heck is going on is point scoring. Two women who are currently missing were threatened with legal action after raising serious concerns over safety in that building. These are serious political issues that need addressing right away, not brushing under the carpet until things have calmed down and everyone has forgotten about it.

 

[bramling]

What's that about a coalition of chaos?

Orange is the new blue and all that.

Any left-leaning coalition would be a disaster at the present time. Apart from the fact that the numbers don't add up, Sturgeon's priority would be anything that helps her independence crusade plus as much spending and power for Scotland as she can screw. PC would also be wanting extra for Wales but don't forget she doesn't really get on with Scotland as she feels Scotland has always got more than Wales and that's unfair. Greens would want a whole load of stuff on the environment despite only being worth one vote, whilst the Lib-Dems are currently fairly rudderless but presumably would be likely to want some sort of Brexit concession. Meanwhile DUP remain in the fold too, and all this at the time of starting the Brexit talks. It simply wouldn't work.

For now, it's Conservatives+DUP or the country really is in serious trouble. I think a lot of people underestimate just how much of a mess the country is in at this moment in time. It's all very well some people celebrating that Corbyn didn't do quite as badly as tipped, but the current bigger picture is nothing to celebrate about at all.

Another issue of concern is that both of the big parties lack potential replacement leadership talent. Simply on the grounds of age Corbyn can't go on forever, and I can't see an obvious leader in waiting that is appealing to a wide spectrum of the population. Meanwhile on the Conservative side there is no one with charisma that doesn't have baggage attached to them; this is partly why May got the leadership in the first place. This is not a good position for the country to be in at all.

Personally, I find the surge in the Labour vote saddening. In living memory until now Britain has always rejected political offerings which are not firmly entrenched in the centre ground, with vote share diminishing considerably when a more extreme platform has been offered. A dose of reality may sadly be needed.

 

[backontrack]

A dose of reality may sadly be needed.

A dose of reality is what Corbyn offers.