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The issue I have in this area with Hitachi trains (and Pendolinos as well), is the window blind design, where I often like to look out the window, but if someone sat infront/behind wants the blind down for reading/laptop use/etc., one of us has to make sacrifices. Sometimes what might be deemed progress isn't, I think on trains the peak here was curtains.
Yes, I dislike vertical blinds myself. It is actually one way the cack handed "one row has all the window, one row has almost none" setup on the 800s actually works better than them sharing half each, as it seems reasonable that the "all the window" person controls its position.
I find it fascinating how many criticise 153s and yet 155s seem to escape scot free. Perhaps because there are only a few of the latter left with one operator?
I find it fascinating how many criticise 153s and yet 155s seem to escape scot free. Perhaps because there are only a few of the latter left with one operator?
That's probably it, along with them having only having a limited area of operation once the non WYPTE fleet were converted- even though they've moved over to the East Riding to see out their days. They did also benefit from not having a cab squeezed into the inner ends. However up until their most recent refurbishment they were in a far worse state than the 153s they often worked alongside.
I think it's about time the 150s were put to sleep. They've served their purpose more than admirably in recent years but I think they're the next fleet that needs to be replaced. I'm more neutral towards the 153s and 155s. While it's true that I don't enjoy riding them that much it's mostly because a lot of the time I seem to get them on services that better trains also run on (for instance on the Welsh Marches line). I have a completely illogical soft spot for the 156s so I don't want to see them go just yet.
I visited the South Coast recently, and even though I knew I should be savouring them while they're still running I didn't really enjoy my time on Southern's 313s. I only used them for short hops mostly but just the sight of seeing them running services all the way from Brighton to Portsmouth made me wince. I would not enjoy a journey in excess of an hour on one.
As for new traction, similar to the 156s I have a bizzare soft spot for the 700s that I can't quite explain, so far from hating them I actually really like them.
I finally had a ride on a WMR 172 earlier this year, and I wasn't impressed. Bland interior, seats were a far cry from the decent ones found on 170s, and if I remember correctly they didn't even have fold down tables.
I visited the South Coast recently, and even though I knew I should be savouring them while they're still running I didn't really enjoy my time on Southern's 313s. I only used them for short hops mostly but just the sight of seeing them running services all the way from Brighton to Portsmouth made me wince. I would not enjoy a journey in excess of an hour on one.
I have a similar reaction to the 150s. On some services, they operate alongside class 195, and while that class was undoubtedly built on a budget, it's clean, quieter, has modern amenities, and most importantly, comes available as a 3 car compared to the 2 cars of the 150.
The GWR 166s and 165s; they're worn-out, horrifically noisy inside and out, some are still running around in FGW livery and almost all still have the FGW interior even though they have no planned replacement, and 3+2 is bad even on the Severn Beach but on Cardiff-Portsmouth it's downright insulting.
I think it's about time the 150s were put to sleep. They've served their purpose more than admirably in recent years but I think they're the next fleet that needs to be replaced. I'm more neutral towards the 153s and 155s. While it's true that I don't enjoy riding them that much it's mostly because a lot of the time I seem to get them on services that better trains also run on (for instance on the Welsh Marches line). I have a completely illogical soft spot for the 156s so I don't want to see them go just yet.
I visited the South Coast recently, and even though I knew I should be savouring them while they're still running I didn't really enjoy my time on Southern's 313s. I only used them for short hops mostly but just the sight of seeing them running services all the way from Brighton to Portsmouth made me wince. I would not enjoy a journey in excess of an hour on one.
As for new traction, similar to the 156s I have a bizzare soft spot for the 700s that I can't quite explain, so far from hating them I actually really like them.
I finally had a ride on a WMR 172 earlier this year, and I wasn't impressed. Bland interior, seats were a far cry from the decent ones found on 170s, and if I remember correctly they didn't even have fold down tables.
150s are the natural candidate for "next on the chopping block" but do have a few things in their favour. There are several routes where platform extensions have assumed 20m vehicles, so switching to 23m replacements could reduce capacity with 2x23m being the maximum rather than 3x20m. They also are more suited to frequent stopping services with high turnover than any would-be replacements other than new-build.
I'm quite fond of 156s too, though they do slightly fall between two stools with being a 75mph unit with a low-density interior and narrow end-doors. They're great for rural services, though less so with the recent refurbishments that many have been subjected to.
The main reason the 172s have a rather less sumptuous interior than the 170s is that they were procured for different work. 170s are geared for limited-stop regional express services, though they do find themselves on stoppers a fair bit. 172s were procured for the Snow Hill lines, so have a more metro/S-bahn type interior to suit. They're also lighter than the 170s so a bit quicker off the mark.
The GWR 166s and 165s; they're worn-out, horrifically noisy inside and out, some are still running around in FGW livery and almost all still have the FGW interior even though they have no planned replacement, and 3+2 is bad even on the Severn Beach but on Cardiff-Portsmouth it's downright insulting.
I quite like their 165/166s along the Severn Beach Line / other shorter distance journeys, but I agree they aren't great for something like Cardiff-Portsmouth.
I find the 165/166 units OK - but then, when I travel on them, it's usually a three-minute journey, so there isn't opportunity to get too attached to them/disgusted by them.
There aren't any types of rolling stock I hate - I like them all - so, for me, it's basically deciding the "least best", as it were. 150/1 is a contender for me: cramped, bays of four but no tables, and connected to one of my more unpleasant railway memories. I don't particularly like stock with longitudinal seating (of which I have experienced classes 345, 378, and 455 - I'm not counting Tube stock) given the longitudinal seating always seems to be very hard, although 345s are partially excused by having good acceleration (I'm not bothered about the rough ride) and 455s by having lovely, soft airline seats (well the one I travelled in did - it may just have been broken). Class 700 is the other contender: slightly too cramped, worst seats of anything on the network (including GWR class 387s), although it is slightly redeemed by virtue of having the best PIS of anything. Obviously there may be others whose seating arrangements are too cramped, but I don't generally find much stock cramped as I'm only five foot four!
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1. 458s have far superior seating to many other designs (better than 450s for example).
2. 745s and 755s have the best seats of any designs in the last five years.
3. The original Mark 4s weren't great for comfort: the Mallard refurbishment improved them (and the Virgin refresh further improved them).
4. The Mallard refurbishment on the Mark 4s wasn't carried out at Doncaster.
I agree with you about the 458s. Once I can remember waiting at Clapham Junction for a Hounslow loop train to Twickenham, and (accidentally) getting on one going the wrong way around the loop. It was 458-operated. Couldn't have made a better choice.
Living in Norwich I don't have much to complain about, but having recently used a Cl 158 to Peterborough it was obvious how poor they are compared to modern units. So cramped, noisy and far too warm. I wouldn't want to take one all the way to Liverpool.
there seems to be a lot of love missing for the 150's. The GWR and Welsh ones i have been on have had a nice internal refit with the 3+2 seats removed and they are perfectly fine local trains.
You are entitled to your view. As someone who lives literally 150m from an Overground station, uses them every single day and has done since they were introduced, l could not disagree more.
The heap of junk 313s that were used previously l would have happily blown up personally. Poorly maintained utter crap.
You are entitled to your view. As someone who lives literally 150m from an Overground station, uses them every single day and has done since they were introduced, l could not disagree more.
The heap of junk 313s that were used previously l would have happily blown up personally. Poorly maintained utter crap.
You are entitled to your view. As someone who lives literally 150m from an Overground station, uses them every single day and has done since they were introduced, l could not disagree more.
The heap of junk 313s that were used previously l would have happily blown up personally. Poorly maintained utter crap.
I dislike 378s too. They are horribly dingy and cheap feeling compared with the S stock which is a perfect example of how stock on this sort of service should look. To be honest, until the Aventra all Adtranz/Bombardier stock looked cheap, 170s do too.
Maybe it's because the S8s (with mixed seating layout) are so good that anything else on that sort of route seems bad I suppose.
I dislike 378s too. They are horribly dingy and cheap feeling compared with the S stock which is a perfect example of how stock on this sort of service should look. To be honest, until the Aventra all Adtranz/Bombardier stock looked cheap, 170s do too.
Maybe it's because the S8s (with mixed seating layout) are so good that anything else on that sort of route seems bad I suppose.
I'm now getting horribly worried about the 720s. I have to suffer the misfortune of travelling on one (unless there is some miracle and I end up on Bins all the way) in a few weeks, so may I ask what the trouble is with them, so that I can turn up for my ordeal suitably braced and prepared for what I have to face?
I'm now getting horribly worried about the 720s. I have to suffer the misfortune of travelling on one (unless there is some miracle and I end up on Bins all the way) in a few weeks, so may I ask what the trouble is with them, so that I can turn up for my ordeal suitably braced and prepared for what I have to face?
Seats so narrow and with such tight pitch that only a 12 year old would fit comfortably with all seats taken. Similar in comfort to a 3+2 seated schoolkid coach of the kind that is banned from rail replacement.
Steeply contoured seat backs so sitting a bit offset is grossly uncomfortable.
Very poor window alignment.
The actual "box on wheels" is fine, but the seating layout is the worst I have ever experienced, including Merseytravel Pacers (though they weren't much better, at least a Pacer is 2.80m wide and has thin sidewalls - the interior of a 720 is about 10cm narrower).
Aim for the bit by the cab where it's 2+2 with spacers, the only OK bit.
Seats so narrow and with such tight pitch that only a 12 year old would fit comfortably with all seats taken. Similar in comfort to a 3+2 seated schoolkid coach of the kind that is banned from rail replacement.
Steeply contoured seat backs so sitting a bit offset is grossly uncomfortable.
Very poor window alignment.
The actual "box on wheels" is fine, but the seating layout is the worst I have ever experienced, including Merseytravel Pacers (though they weren't much better, at least a Pacer is 2.80m wide and has thin sidewalls - the interior of a 720 is about 10cm narrower).
Aim for the bit by the cab where it's 2+2 with spacers, the only OK bit.
I did Liv St-Hertford then Hertford-Kings X to try one and compare to a 717. That was quite sufficient, and the 717 was, other than the drab colour scheme, unrecognisably better.
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