The UK Railway Network- a true network?

[tractakid]

Is there such a unit which could use tube tunnels and unelectrified national rail track?
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The connection is northbound-northbound and southbound-southbound: it's impossible for a southbound Victoria line train to access the northbound Piccadilly line.

(Although officially the Piccadilly line is now referred to as east-west...)

Disregarding 2009 stock size, wouldn't it be possible for southbound Victoria to access northbound Piccadilly the same way a southbound Piccadilly would access the northbound Piccadilly?

 

[Tiny Tim]

Concerning the lift down to the Waterloo & City:

It was demolished to make way for Waterloo International, what a waste

Access for rolling stock in or out of the W&C now is via a shaft using a crane. It's unlikely to be needed very often, so hardly worth investing in a new lift.

 

[transmanche]

Is there such a unit which could use tube tunnels and unelectrified national rail track?

An LU battery loco?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Disregarding 2009 stock size, wouldn't it be possible for southbound Victoria to access northbound Piccadilly the same way a southbound Piccadilly would access the northbound Piccadilly?

No. A southbound Piccadilly line train cannot access the northbound Piccadilly line there (and neither can a southbound Victoria line train access the northbound Victoria line there).

See the track layout.

 

[tractakid]

An LU battery loco?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No. A southbound Piccadilly line train cannot access the northbound Piccadilly line there (and neither can a southbound Victoria line train access the northbound Victoria line there).

See track layout.

The easiest example to point out, the Heathrow loop? Even my mother would know that!

 

[LE Greys]

Concerning the lift down to the Waterloo & City:

Access for rolling stock in or out of the W&C now is via a shaft using a crane. It's unlikely to be needed very often, so hardly worth investing in a new lift.

It was also responsible for one of the bizarrest rail accidents ever, M7 0-4-4T No. 678 fell down the lift shaft when someone messed up a shunting move! IIRC, nobody was hurt (it was low speed and presumably the crew jumped to safety) but the loco could not be extracated and had to be cut up.

 

[Tiny Tim]

An LU battery loco?

Only if it's a Central Line one. Which is the answer.

Today Ruislip, tomorrow.......?

 

[jopsuk]

Is Manchester Metrolink the only one of the Tram networks that is connected at all?

DLR is not connected. Glasgow Subway has a completely different track gauge.

Pretty sure most preserved lines are connected- and those that aren't, aspire to be reconnected as it makes life easier for them.

 

[PFX]

2) Northern Irish Rail - yes Northern Ireland is in the UK

I would discount NIR as not only has it always operated independantly of the UK network, but uses Irish gauge.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Is Manchester Metrolink the only one of the Tram networks that is connected at all?

DLR is not connected. Glasgow Subway has a completely different track gauge.

Pretty sure most preserved lines are connected- and those that aren't, aspire to be reconnected as it makes life easier for them.

Gwili Railway, Isfield Railway...neither of those are connected afaik. What about teh Romney Hythe and Dymchurch railway...ok, narrow guage but does it meet the standard gauge railway at any point?

t,

Ian

 

[cuccir]

I'm guessing the Glasgow Subway is completely isolated?

 

[starrymarkb]

Yes it is - it's narrow gauge aswell

 

[LE Greys]

Only if it's a Central Line one. Which is the answer.

Today Ruislip, tomorrow.......?

Ongar!

I think there is still access at Epping, but NIRU.

 

[tractakid]

Is the Croydon Tramlink connected at all? Where? Or is it incompatible?

 

[junglejames]

What about teh Romney Hythe and Dymchurch railway...ok, narrow guage but does it meet the standard gauge railway at any point?

t,

Ian

Nope. Closest is at Dungeness, but even thats still a little way.
No need anyway. All rolling stock leaves and arrives by road. That only usually happens if leaving for a heavy overhaul though. Or perhaps if the RHDR and the Ravenglass play swapsies!

 

[LexyBoy]

Is the Croydon Tramlink connected at all? Where? Or is it incompatible?

It appears to be connected just west of Beckenham Junction. As far as I know all trams were delivered by road rather than rail though, so there's probably no operational need for a connexion. It would of course be incompatible with NR signalling and probably loading gauge and axle loadings too.

Wasn't the original question about the "National Rail" network though? If we count any rail then there's loads of heritage lines with no rail link.

The Looe branch is connected to the main line at Liskeard by a siding connection which I do not think is used by passenger trains.

I think it must be off-limits for passenger traffic, as Pathfinder's excursion to Looe puts passengers off whilst the train reverses onto the branchline.

 

[steamybrian]

Is Manchester Metrolink the only one of the Tram networks that is connected at all?

DLR is not connected. Glasgow Subway has a completely different track gauge.

Pretty sure most preserved lines are connected- and those that aren't, aspire to be reconnected as it makes life easier for them.

AFAIK- Croydon Tramlink is isolated from the NR network.

There are only a small number of preserved lines that are connected to the NR system.
Here in the South East- The Lavender Line at Isfield is isolated from NR and also isolated is the Spa Valley Railway and Kent & East Sussex Rly.
The Bluebell Railway will be connected next year with the opening of the line to East Grinstead.
The Epping and Ongar Railway may still be connected however there may be a temporary buffer stop or a rail removed to prevent any through movement on to the LU system.
East Kent Railway is isolated by only a few lengths of removed rails.

 

[oversteer]

(Although officially the Piccadilly line is now referred to as east-west...)

That's disappointing, I liked the fact that you could take the Northern line southbound from Euston to Kings Cross, then take the Victoria Line southbound from Kings Cross to Euston.

 

[paul1609]

AFAIK- Croydon Tramlink is isolated from the NR network.

There are only a small number of preserved lines that are connected to the NR system.
Here in the South East- The Lavender Line at Isfield is isolated from NR and also isolated is the Spa Valley Railway and Kent & East Sussex Rly.
The Bluebell Railway will be connected next year with the opening of the line to East Grinstead.
The Epping and Ongar Railway may still be connected however there may be a temporary buffer stop or a rail removed to prevent any through movement on to the LU system.
East Kent Railway is isolated by only a few lengths of removed rails.

I think that strictly speaking the Bluebell is already connected to the National network, its just that Bluebell (North) isnt connected to Bluebell South.
Similarly I expect that KESR (West) (RVR) may well be connected to the national network next year although it may be a few years before its connected to KESR (East)

 

[Pen Mill]

The Looe branch is connected to the main line at Liskeard by a siding connection which I do not think is used by passenger trains.

The isolated Waterloo and City Line was BR owned until transferred to London Underground in 1994. It is still isolated from the rest of the LU system and new stock has to be craned in from ground level to the track below ground level.

There is a chord off the mainline onto the Looe branch at Liskeard which allows the Moorswater freight to get onto the Looe branch. It is also used for changing units over onto the Looe branch.

 

[transmanche]

The easiest example to point out, the Heathrow loop? Even my mother would know that!

Er... what??? :roll:

 

[Manchester77]

Concerning the lift down to the Waterloo & City:



Access for rolling stock in or out of the W&C now is via a shaft using a crane. It's unlikely to be needed very often, so hardly worth investing in a new lift.

I meant Waterloo international!

Regarding the Heathrow loop. According to the track diagram I have that has no connection to any other line it's just Piccadilly Line
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's a connection from the district and Hammersmith and city lines onto GOBLIN at Barking

 

[dcsprior]

There are only a small number of preserved lines that are connected to the NR system.
Here in the South East- The Lavender Line at Isfield is isolated from NR and also isolated is the Spa Valley Railway and Kent & East Sussex Rly.
The Bluebell Railway will be connected next year with the opening of the line to East Grinstead.
The Epping and Ongar Railway may still be connected however there may be a temporary buffer stop or a rail removed to prevent any through movement on to the LU system.
East Kent Railway is isolated by only a few lengths of removed rails.

I believe that both the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway and the Strathspey Railway are joined to the national rail network. In the latter case, they also share Aviemore Station with NR.

 

[steamybrian]

I believe that both the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway and the Strathspey Railway are joined to the national rail network. In the latter case, they also share Aviemore Station with NR.

In addition to the above mentioned lines in Scotland they are many Heritage Railways south of the border that ARE connected to the NR amongst these being-
Bodmin & Wenford, Dart Valley, Dartmoor Rly, Dean Forest, East Lancs, East Somerset, Keighley & Worth Valley, Mid Hants, Mid Norfolk, Nene Valley,North Yorks Moors, North Norfolk, Paignton & Dartmouth, Peak Rail, Ribble , Severn Valley, Swanage, Weardale, Wensleydale, West Somerset

Unsure about the Churnet Valley and Midland Railway (Butterley) if their connections are still in situ and usable.

Apologies if I missed any other railway.

 

[tractakid]

Er... what??? :roll:

I was pointing out one way in which a southbound Piccadilly train could return northbound. This was to counteract the argument that southbound Victoria line trains had no connection to the Piccadilly line northbound. They DO, just a longer way round. And that's what matters, when deciding if there is a track connection between all National Rail and London Underground stations. (except the Waterloo and City and Island Lines).

As for why I picked the Heathrow Loop? I like it, and ANYONE that looks at the tube map can see how it will return a southbound train northbound. Of course, there is a less roundabout way of returning northbound, I think Down Street sidings would work?

 

[transmanche]

This was to counteract the argument that southbound Victoria line trains had no connection to the Piccadilly line northbound. They DO, just a longer way round.

Oh sorry, I thought we were having a sensible discussion about track connections at Finsbury Park... :roll:

 

[tractakid]

Well, in that case is any of the topic sensible? Ultimately we have concluded that a London Underground battery loco has access to the entire rail network. That has no useful meaning for anything :P

But yes, within the immediate vicinity of Finsbury Park, there is no south-north or north-south connections.

Also, a quote from Oversteer: "That's disappointing, I liked the fact that you could take the Northern line southbound from Euston to Kings Cross, then take the Victoria Line southbound from Kings Cross to Euston."

You still can. It's the Piccadilly line that is East-West, not the Victoria or Northern

 

[Manchester77]

A actually a battery loco may not be ideal but it'd work. It can go on any electrified or non electrified line. In tube tunnels and on standard lines so in any case IMO if a unit was to travel across the entire network (LU, NR, ect) a battery loco would be well suited however I have no idea how long it takes for them to charge...

 

[12CSVT]

Unsure about the Churnet Valley and Midland Railway (Butterley) if their connections are still in situ and usable.

Butterley is connected. A BLS railtour visited there in August.
Churnet Valley will need quite a bit of trackwork before trains can arrive from the main line (although the track from Leek Brook to Stoke is intact as far as I'm aware).

Also a temporary connection was laid at Princes Risborough to allow a railtour to visit Chinnor & Princes Risborough railway a year or two ago.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Unsure about the... Midland Railway (Butterley) if their connections are still in situ and usable.

Apologies if I missed any other railway.

Still in situ and in use - I did it back in August on a BLS outing.

 

[Lrd]

A actually a battery loco may not be ideal but it'd work. It can go on any electrified or non electrified line. In tube tunnels and on standard lines so in any case IMO if a unit was to travel across the entire network (LU, NR, ect) a battery loco would be well suited however I have no idea how long it takes for them to charge...

It can be hauled by a diesel loco outside of the tunnels.