'The Tube' (TV program)

[Tubeboy]

Like buses. None, then three posts all together! Lol.

 

[SS4]

Show's just started

 

[martin2345uk]

I had no idea that's how you pronounce Bombardier!!!

Those new trains look stunning, when are they due in service?

Edit: and what on earth was that black diesel that pushed the new train to the depot...?

 

[mbonwick]

The S stock has already started entering service, I've no idea where deliveries are up to.

S stock is delivered by pairs of GBRF class 20s with converted tank wagons as barriers (ie coupling adapters)

 

[transportphoto]

I recognise one of the Revenue Control Officers from the previous series (ITV London / Shown on sky) the female officer with short grey hair. Never seen her in real life though!

 

[CC 72100]

I recognise one of the Revenue Control Officers from the previous series (ITV London / Shown on sky) the female officer with short grey hair. Never seen her in real life though!

YES! I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been noticing them off the other series

Other one was the guy in the office on last weeks episode, who was district line manager at the time of the ITV London series and featured heavily in the episode where one of his drivers almost suffered a one under.

 

[SS4]

I recognise one of the Revenue Control Officers from the previous series (ITV London / Shown on sky) the female officer with short grey hair. Never seen her in real life though!

I thought it was!

 

[Greenback]

Other one was the guy in the office on last weeks episode, who was district line manager at the time of the ITV London series and featured heavily in the episode where one of his drivers almost suffered a one under.

I knew I'd seen him before in the other series, just couldn't say which role!

 

[Tracky]

Did the BBC really have to show how to fare dodge on Oyster...

 

[Simon11]

Agreed, any con learnt two methods to evade fares from watching that programme......

You would have thought they would have hidden that part?

 

[CC 72100]

I knew I'd seen him before in the other series, just couldn't say which role!

Yeah. The suicide attempt was at Victoria, where the driver took the train out of service, shaken up. The manager then went out to Victoria to ride back with the driver to Hammersmith, still visibly shaken by the incident. Andy Hogg (the manager) then went on to do the compulsory interview with the driver, and then a short piece to the camera about how drivers cope with it.

The guy from that series who I'd love to see again is José 'Monty' Monteiro, the Portugese station supervisor at Brixton, with him and his 'six cans of coke' bets about how many escalators they could get up and running at the same time!

Aah if only I could remember some of the finer points of French & Spanish grammar so easily!

 

[Crossover]

I had no idea that's how you pronounce Bombardier!!!

Those new trains look stunning, when are they due in service?

Edit: and what on earth was that black diesel that pushed the new train to the depot...?

Only had a brief journey on one but they are very nice and were really quiet going round corners.

Found it quite funny that the apprentice was trying to get the doors to work and "trying to get them to hang straight-ish" or words to those effect...quality British engineering at its finest

Did the BBC really have to show how to fare dodge on Oyster...

Oddly enough, I'd never thought about someone doing that - not sure how it can be stopped apart from tracking users down. Not sure showing it on TV was the brightest idea, I have to say
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They didn't mention after the show but from looking at the EPG, next weeks episode is looking at the issue of one unders...just to brace everyone for the usual comments that brings up from some posters...

 

[scotsman]

Fair enough if you ask me. They showed the method, then they showed the deterrent. The "clean man" getting a criminal record (that was clearly with intent) and chinged £110 was a pretty good deterrent IMHO.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Agreed, any con learnt two methods to evade fares from watching that programme......

You would have thought they would have hidden that part?

Not sure how long ago the footage was acquired (July 2011 from the headlines in the newspaper?) but that might be long enough for TfL to have addressed these issues.

One thing that occurred to me was that any time I use LU it's with a Travelcard rather than an Oystercard - so are people like me under suspicion of fare evasion for not scanning an Oystercard?

 

[scotsman]

Not sure how long ago the footage was acquired (July 2011 from the headlines in the newspaper?) but that might be long enough for TfL to have addressed these issues.

One thing that occurred to me was that any time I use LU it's with a Travelcard rather than an Oystercard - so are people like me under suspicion of fare evasion for not scanning an Oystercard?

Paper, or loaded on the Oyster?

 

[Simon11]

Well there was a short mention of fraud tickets being found recently on the network with fake tickets and TFL are looking into ways to combat this.

However they can't stop anyone entering and pretending to exit with their oyster card at the same time. I'm sure its down to health and safety that the barriers also open if people force it open so there isn't the potential for crush injuries.

 

[Muzer]

Slightly offtopic, but is there some legal way to watch this old series about which I'm hearing (on a free-to-air channel on purchasable on DVD?)

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Paper, or loaded on the Oyster?

Paper (or rather card actually).

 

[tsr]

Slightly offtopic, but is there some legal way to watch this old series about which I'm hearing (on a free-to-air channel on purchasable on DVD?)

I can't find the series on iTunes (to save you looking). The episodes are (or were) pretty much all on YouTube, but since those are probably illegal copies, they are out of bounds for you and I.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Did the BBC really have to show how to fare dodge on Oyster...

For instance, I had no idea that you could touch in, then touch out straightaway at the same station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Those new trains look stunning, when are they due in service?

Ridden the new S-Stock Metropolitan lines trains twice. The second trip was between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Finchley Road. The experience was bordering on 'enjoyable' ! The new continuously welded track helps too.

I like the open connections between the carriages allowing you to walk the length of train, while on the move. They are quieter, brighter and smoother than the old A stock. And air conditioning will be useful in the summer months. Plus these new trains have modern hum to them.

I'm less keen on the seating layout.

 

[transmanche]

For instance, I had no idea that you could touch in, then touch out straightaway at the same station.

Yes. It's times when you touch in then see there's a big delay and decide to leave and try an alternative route. So you're allowed x minutes to touch out again without charge. (Although I'm not sure of the value of x!)

Did the BBC really have to show how to fare dodge on Oyster...

If he'd been caught en-route by a random inspection, he'd only have received a PF. But by showing the pattern of use, they could go for prosecution instead.

TfL are probably happy to show this for the deterrent value. "We know some of you are committing this fraud; but what you didn't realise is that we can spot the pattern, track you in real time and it won't be a PF... we'll prosecute you. It's just a matter of time." I guess they're hoping that instances of this type of fraud will decrease after showing how they can catch the fraudsters.

 

[scotsman]

Paper (or rather card actually).

I suppose so. You might just be challenged, but since you are in possession of a valid ticket, this encounter will last a few seconds.

 

[dvboy]

Slightly offtopic, but is there some legal way to watch this old series about which I'm hearing (on a free-to-air channel on purchasable on DVD?)

According to Wikipedia there has been a DVD release, but it'll probably be repeated on Pick TV again sometime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tube_(2003_TV_series)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not helpful when you're colour-blind

Well obviously the lines would still have names, for example everywhere you currently see "Central line" signs, you'd see "Red line" signed. Might have to come up with a better name than "Light Blue line" for the Victoria though. You could get away with Silver for the Jubilee and Purple for the Met rather than their current "TfL colour names"

 

[mralexn]

After watching "The Tube" on BBC2 I can see a few techniques tried to get around paying fares,
but aren't most of the tube stations gated anyway?
I also thought if you touched in with an oyster card but not out (or visa versa) you were charged a automation penalty fare of £25?

Do you think that the £25 penalty fare is really high enough?

And what measures do you think could / should be done to completely combat fare evasion on the London Underground network ?


Mods. Feel free to move this if it's in the wrong thread

 

[causton]

A few points: as you saw some people touch in then out at the same station to avoid paying the full fare (if going from east to west London, the 2 fares charged would be less than that if you were travelling through central London and touched in and out as normal).
Stations are gated but if nobody's around you can easily push them open (indeed, I saw a staff member at Kings Cross do this to let people through when they had dropped their Oyster card where they couldn't reach it and couldn't open the gates!
If you touch in and then not out you are charged a 'maximum fare' which is the greatest fare likely to be paid when using that station. Much lower than £25.
And, the £25 charge is now £40 (£80 if you don't pay up quickly!)





You could never totally eliminate fare evasion but making the service seem attractive, worth the cost, and catching/making an example of/harshly treating the fare evaders they do catch helps a long way I believe

 

[transmanche]

I also thought if you touched in with an oyster card but not out (or visa versa) you were charged a automation penalty fare of £25?

No, you're allowed a couple of minutes to go back out without a charge - in case the service is FUBAR and you want to try going a different way. Even after that time you won't pay a PF.

Do you think that the £25 penalty fare is really high enough?

Since the programme was recorded, it's increased to £40. (Well technically it was £50, now it's £80 - but there's a 50% discount for paying within 21 days.)

 

[mralexn]

Did the BBC really have to show how to fare dodge on Oyster.....?

Yes, I think its a good idea, because it will make people look out for this trick.
It also makes it public that they fully know people do that and they can combat it, and it also shows the consequences. (ie man in headphones being fined)

Its like the "police" tv shows,

It shows us that they are tacking the issue of fare evasion, they know all the tricks that we "try" and they are clamping down in it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes. It's times when you touch in then see there's a big delay and decide to leave and try an alternative route. So you're allowed x minutes to touch out again without charge. (Although I'm not sure of the value of x!)

If he'd been caught en-route by a random inspection, he'd only have received a PF. But by showing the pattern of use, they could go for prosecution instead.

TfL are probably happy to show this for the deterrent value. "We know some of you are committing this fraud; but what you didn't realise is that we can spot the pattern, track you in real time and it won't be a PF... we'll prosecute you. It's just a matter of time." I guess they're hoping that instances of this type of fraud will decrease after showing how they can catch the fraudsters.

I got Prosecuted £950 for not having a ticket on a train from Sheffield To Meadowhall, a one off offence, no "pattern" but EMT were very fast to Prosecute me..
I think the Penalty fare should be a lot higher than £40, it should be at leaste £100 to make people think twice before they try and not buy a ticket..

 

[SS4]

Did the BBC really have to show how to fare dodge on Oyster.....?

Yes, I think its a good idea, because it will make people look out for this trick.
It also makes it public that they fully know people do that and they can combat it, and it also shows the consequences. (ie man in headphones being fined)

Its like the "police" tv shows,

It shows us that they are tacking the issue of fare evasion, they know all the tricks that we "try" and they are clamping down in it.

So what's the issue? I still reckon tailgating counts for a large proportion of fare evasions on the tube and with barriered stations in general really.
The BBC were clever in showing that the fare evaders were always caught though

 

[yorkie]

but aren't most of the tube stations gated anyway?

You have said similar before:

£80.. You can't as far as i can tell, easily get on a Tube train without a ticket anyway, arent all the stations gated?

And my reply remains consistent:

No, many stations and many interchanges are not gated. Even if they were gates only ensure a ticket of some validity (highly variable) at the point of entry/exit.

and of course even where gates exist, it is not exactly unknown for people to avoid using them (tailgating,

I also thought if you touched in with an oyster card but not out (or visa versa) you were charged a automation penalty fare of £25?

No, that is not the case. You are thinking of the maximum Oyster fare.

I recommend you read our dedicated Fares, Tickets & Routeing section as there are several discussions about Oyster there. An advanced search of the forum for the word Oyster, selecting that section, will produce results that may be of interest to you. You will also notice posts by MikeWh in such threads, and several recommendations to visit his site to learn more about Oyster: http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/

Do you think that the £25 penalty fare is really high enough?

The question is wrong. From the TfL website "Penalty fares increased from £50 to £80 from the 2 January 2012, this will be enforced from 19 February 2012." of course this applies to TfL only.

And what measures do you think could / should be done to completely combat fare evasion on the London Underground network ?

Do you mean completely remove? If so, I think it can't ever be achieved.

 

[tony_mac]

No, you're allowed a couple of minutes to go back out without a charge - in case the service is FUBAR and you want to try going a different way. Even after that time you won't pay a PF.

The rules are at...
http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/same-station-exits/

I recently had to pay to visit the ramp at East Croydon.

According to Mike's site, I could apparently have done it for free - but I was told by the chap on the barrier that I would need to be able to return with 15 minutes.