The Trainline - more expensive than Forum ticketing? (workplace)

[Ant1966]

All our work travel is through a central team. I asked them to book BSK > EXD for next Tuesday 17th, via RDG (I need to be in EXD before 10:00 which rules out WoE route)
Theyve booked me a £119.90 Anytime Single splitting at Pewsey. 06:51>09:27
I found £74 Advance Single on the forum:

Ticket Information | RailUK Tickets

TrainSplit is a free service that makes it easy to find the cheapest train tickets for your journey.

tickets-beta.railforums.co.uk

The only difference is the Forum tckst uses the earlier GWR train BSK>RDG and the Trainline suggests a later 06:51 XC (although of course its Anytime)
(The forum also has tickets for the 06:51 connection, multi splits £90.51)

I was a little surpised, so asked them to look again whilst I watched to see if there were any odd check boxes selected, got the same results.
tried again at home today on the Trainline (non business) just put in BSK > EXD leaving at 06:00, comes back the same £119.90 (but with an extra booking fee, just to rub it in!)

Search Results | Trainline

Trainline, your quick & easy way to book train tickets across Europe. ✓ Save 61% on UK Rail ✓ Live Train Times ✓ Save with a Railcard ✓ Get the app

www.thetrainline.com

Any ideas whats going on here?
I work for a public sector organisation so every penny counts. Does the forum ticketing site have a business offer? I might try and persuade them to move! (although we arent talking loads of £££s sadly, see above)

 

[drueberflug]

Any ideas whats going on here?
I work for a public sector organisation so every penny counts. Does the forum ticketing site have a business offer? I might try and persuade them to move! (although we arent talking loads of £££s sadly, see above)

I'd guess they both use different splitting algorithms.

Also, Raileasy/Trainsplit do have a business offer: https://tickets-beta.railforums.co.uk/business

 

[Adam Williams]

There is indeed a business offering which can provide a credit account (subject to some eligibility criteria: spend/credit check) w/ payment by direct debit or BACS, lodged card/self-pay options for businesses that don't yet meet the credit account requirements, priority customer support, MI questions for reporting etc.

The B2C forum ticketing site is unique in that there's a revenue sharing agreement in place there with the forum; just to be clear a business account wouldn't directly support the forum with each and every purchase, though it does indirectly subsidise some of the costs.

Quite a few businesses have made the switch from Trainline's offering.

 

[Ant1966]

I'd guess they both use different splitting algorithms.

Also, Raileasy/Trainsplit do have a business offer: https://tickets-beta.railforums.co.uk/business

Ah OK. The £74 ticket isnt a split though, so I wonder why the Trainline cant see that one?

 

[styles]

Trainline's split ticket algorithm is just generally inferior to most split ticketing competitors, many if whom use Raileasy/Trainsplit (including the forum).

Split ticketing isn't something DfT/RDG/NRE/etc offer - it's something retailers do themselves, so each split ticket retailer has their own algorithm, rather than a standardised one.

I sometimes find Trainline cheaper, but this is usually because their booking fee is capped at £2.99, whereas the Raileasy retailers take something like 10-15% commission (I don't know the exact rate for the different retailers). So when say Trainline and the forum's site both fine split tickets, if the savings from splitting is very large, Trainline is cheaper; and if the savings from splitting is smaller, the forum is cheaper.

Then you've got other bespoke splitting algorithm sites like Trainpal, Tailboard, etc.

TLDR - each site has their own way of finding split tickets. Trainline usually isn't the best, but sometimes wins.

 

[Vexed]

Ah OK. The £74 ticket isnt a split though, so I wonder why the Trainline cant see that one?

Most ticketing sites ignore (to differing extents) slightly slower journeys where you can get an earlier connection to the same station. TrainSplit doesn't immediately discount these.

The later (XC) connection to Reading probably doesn't have advance tickets set up - from what I can see there aren't XC & GWR or GWR & Connections advances for the Basingstoke to Exeter flow (might not apply to split tickets ofc).

So by not ignoring the slower journey early on TrainSplit can identify that is has a lower fare.

 

[ainsworth74]

I sometimes find Trainline cheaper, but this is usually because their booking fee is capped at £2.99, whereas the Raileasy retailers take something like 10-15% commission (I don't know the exact rate for the different retailers). So when say Trainline and the forum's site both fine split tickets, if the savings from splitting is very large, Trainline is cheaper; and if the savings from splitting is smaller, the forum is cheaper.

Though it's a percentage of the saving found. If there's no saving then there's no booking fee at all and as it's a percentage of the saving you'll always be better off even if the share of saving fee is large (though they can sometimes be very large so I will confess I've added tickets to my basket manually to avoid it )

 

[kieron]

Ah OK. The £74 ticket isnt a split though, so I wonder why the Trainline cant see that one?

The retailers use different algorithms to choose which itineraries to offer the customer, and different algorithms to work out which tickets are valid on them. While they may come up with the same results in many cases, you shouldn't be too surprised when they don't.

In this case, you said that Trainsplit offered you an earlier departure from Basingstoke. If that's the 06:25 from Basingstoke, Trainline may simply not have considered that you'd be happy to sit around in Reading for half an hour.

If you'd like to buy the £74 ticket from Trainline, it finds it if you search for a journey via Mortimer. Your work travel team should be able to do the same with their system. This works because ticket retail systems (any of them, as far as I know) don't realise that the Crosscountry train goes through Mortimer (or Reading Green Park). They do know they go through Bramley and Reading West, so they can't be used like this.

 

[styles]

Though it's a percentage of the saving found. If there's no saving then there's no booking fee at all and as it's a percentage of the saving you'll always be better off even if the share of saving fee is large (though they can sometimes be very large so I will confess I've added tickets to my basket manually to avoid it )

Yeah that's what I tried to communicate.

If trainline charges max £2.99 booking fee, and we assume the forum site charges 10% on the savings made by splitting tickets (I don't know exactly what % it is or if it is even constant), then for journeys where the savings made by splitting tickets is >£30, and Trainline happens to find the same splits (not a given, as their algorithm isn't as good), then Trainline will be cheaper.

For journeys where splitting saves little or no money, or Trainline doesn't find a split but the forum's site does, the forum will be cheaper.

I took often manually fill baskets with tickets to avoid fees. Though the occasional traveller won't. Then again, the occasional traveller probably doesn't understand split tickets even after they've bought them!

 

[Ant1966]

Thanks for all your replies everyone. Based on this I'll have a go at weaning my workplace off the Trainline (or I may even offer to double check any bookings they make for a few months, even though thats NOT my job at all!)

 

[styles]

Thanks for all your replies everyone. Based on this I'll have a go at weaning my workplace off the Trainline (or I may even offer to double check any bookings they make for a few months, even though thats NOT my job at all!)

Depending on the size of company and their requirements etc they may be interested in: https://tickets-beta.railforums.co.uk/business

 

[TUC]

My employer uses Corporate Travel Management, and split tickets have recently started appearing in response to booking requests. Are they linked to any of those referenced above?

 

[Adam Williams]

My employer uses Corporate Travel Management, and split tickets have recently started appearing in response to booking requests. Are they linked to any of those referenced above?

Unlikely; Raileasy haven't bothered with any TMC integrations to date.

I think what you've probably just seen is other suppliers trying to play catch-up and offer some form of split ticketing.