The train conductor and my e-ticket...

[yorkie]

Just because a term exists, doesn't make it fair.

If you read all the small print terms of everything you agree to, you must be the only person to do so. (I hope you do not use Microsoft Windows!)

Many of the railways T&Cs are at severe risk of being ruled unfair someone ever took them to court over it.

Anyway for about £20 the OP can get a ticket from Stoke/Crewe to London and back again with London Midland. Quicker and cheaper than a coach.

"Then again, now I know that I would almost certainly not be allowed to travel with this ticket and would be asked to buy a new, more expensive ticket plus possible penalties."

The only 'penalty' is having to buy a very expensive "Anytime" ticket, these are approx £120 each way. You can get an "Unpaid Fare Notice", no need to hand over an cash. You can then dispute it, and you can take your case to the media and if a newspaper agrees that it is unfair, they may publish the story and Virgin will cave in, not pursue the unpaid fare and it would be a good victory for all of us. No guarantees but I'd like to see that happen!

I wonder if they pursue UPFNs abroad?

 

[theblackwatch]

I've used e-tickets before and have had my card checked (on XC for the record), so just because Yorkie never has does not mean nobody does. The OP mentions the awful customer service 'online' - was this a written e-mail response you got from them?

A couple of people have referred to a 'list' for checking. Is it not the barcode that should be scanned which would verify that the same ticket had not been used and printed alsewhere? (I await some guard telling us they aren't provided with scanners - something you should take up with your management if this is the case!)

 

[Deerfold]

Amazing what can be in the terms and conditions...


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/techno...-collects-customers-souls-in-april-fools-gag/

 

[MCR247]

Just because a term exists, doesn't make it fair.

Sorry, but I thought he meant it was unfair that he needed the card and he didn't know that before he booked it. Sorry, I didn't look at it the way you did. My bad

 

[b0b]

Often buried in the T&Cs is a statement along the lines of "if any part of this is unenforceable, the rest of the T&C will still have full effect"

they know fine well they're adding T&Cs that are unenforceable, and banking on people not challenging them.

 

[yorkie]

I've used e-tickets before and have had my card checked (on XC for the record), so just because Yorkie never has does not mean nobody does.

Indeed and I was quick to point out that I have never experienced this route, and the OP wants to "know" if he will be checked and I made it clear that we can't know one way or the other.

Sorry, but I thought he meant it was unfair that he needed the card and he didn't know that before he booked it. Sorry, I didn't look at it the way you did. My bad

No problem You make a good point - people should read the T&Cs, although quite how far this can be taken is debatable (e.g. some people at ATOC appear to expect us to read the entire list of easements every time we make a journey just in case there is a 'negative' easement (an oxymoron!) applying to our journey! This is, I believe, unenforceable and unrealistic)

 

[YorkshireBear]

Amazing what can be in the terms and conditions...


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/techno...-collects-customers-souls-in-april-fools-gag/

that made my day that did

 

[yorkie]

I am breaking a term & condition by linking to this website http://www.trainstrains.co.uk/T&conditions.htm

8.2 You may not create any links to this Website.

Sue me! :P

 

[Pumbaa]

@Ferret - do they still give out the megatrain sheets with all the tickets on? I have never seen a TM on VT with one, and have had no trouble with them.

 

[bb21]

Me too. Never seen VT guards with such a list with them before. SWT guards used to have them but not seen one for over a year now. EMT I have only observed such practice at the help desk at St Pancras.

I had one SWT guard on an evening Weymouth-Waterloo train challenge me for the ticket lately claiming he had no idea what this ticket was. Last time it happened traces back over the years to 2006 when I returned one day from Exeter and the female guard threatened to throw me off the train at Crewkerne if I did not buy another ticket as she was adamant that the piece of paper I had was some sort of a 'joke' as it cannot be that cheap. Not knowing my rights I paid for an undiscounted Exeter-Salisbury single and got off at Salisbury. Luckily I managed to get the ticket endorsed (the right term?) at the ticket office by a very apologetic lady for the next service. After writing to SWT I did eventually get a written apology, a refund of the Exeter-Salisbury fare and my original megatrain fare of £5, plus rail vouchers to the same value of the Exeter-Salisbury ticket. (Sorry for being off topic. )

 

[Sampras]

So after trying again and again and failing to explain the people of virgin trains some common sense I've given up.
Like I said I got my self a prepaid visa so I'll buy a new ticket. But amazingly, I've just read their ENTIRE terms and conditions and it says that the name on the card has to match the name on the ticket And my prepaid visa has no name on it
I really really don't waste my money again...

 

[b0b]

Sampras: have your parents report the card lost, so they'll get a new one. Take the "lost" card with you. They just want to see the card to try and prevent multiple use, they're not going to try and do any auth on it

 

[yorkie]

Guards are instructed to be lenient to people who either do not speak good English, or who are elderly, young, or disabled, or who are from another country, I believe. I'm not guaranteeing that it will be fine, but I really think it is worth giving it a go and see the guard before Stoke-on-Trent, as a London Midland return ticket from there to London is very reasonably priced and the Manchester-Stoke single that they can charge on board is under £9, so as long as you see the guard before Stoke the worst he/she can do is charge you £8.80.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Sampras: have your parents report the card lost, so they'll get a new one. Take the "lost" card with you. They just want to see the card to try and prevent multiple use, they're not going to try and do any auth on it

I was thinking along similar lines. But instead of claiming that the card has been lost (which it hasn't) they could simply ask for another card on the same account - for another member of the family to use.
That would allow them to lend you the original card for the duration of your UK visit, and give them another one to use during that time.

The advantage of b0b's suggestion is that your parents will know that no unexpected costs will arrive on the card's account while you have it because it has been cancelled.
The advantage of my suggestion is that any regular payments they make (eg annual subscriptions) on that account will still continue as normal.

Would your parents allow you to take the card with you with either of these plans to get another card?

 

[Ferret]

@Ferret - do they still give out the megatrain sheets with all the tickets on? I have never seen a TM on VT with one, and have had no trouble with them.

I haven't a clue! I don't have anything to do with them any more (probably a good thing!).

 

[londonbridge]

Often buried in the T&Cs is a statement along the lines of "if any part of this is unenforceable, the rest of the T&C will still have full effect"

they know fine well they're adding T&Cs that are unenforceable, and banking on people not challenging them.

Sorry to go off-topic but on the subject of unfair/unenforceable T&Cs,I got into a row with Ticketmaster after a concert I'd bought a ticket for was cancelled and they refunded me the ticket price and booking fee,but not the postage. Their T&Cs state that if an event is cancelled the postage charge is non-refundable,and of course you've agreed to the T&Cs when buying the ticket. However the consumer rights laws state that if an event is cancelled ticket agencies are legally obligated to refund ALL MONIES PAID-would this not include the postage charge?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Unless there is a specific clause in that law saying that postage is excluded then yes it would include a refund of the postage.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

the consumer rights laws state that if an event is cancelled ticket agencies are legally obligated to refund ALL MONIES PAID-would this not include the postage charge?

Its hard to think of what legislation could require the company/agency to "refund" money which you hadn't given them.

How you send your order (and payment), and how much you pay for that delivery is a matter for you, the customer; unless the Company/agency has some control over how much or how little you spend, if anything, or who you pay it to, how could they then be required to pay you that indeterminate amount?

I'm beginning to see a nice little enterprise, based on very expensive courier hand-delivery and ordering goods and services that are likely to be cancelled or impossible to fulfill!

 

[Carefree]

Re.: checking of e-tickets and payment cards...

In my experience, Virgin Trains staff at Piccadilly do tend to ask for both e-ticket and payment card (I've never been allowed to board there with an e-ticket without showing the card).

However, on the most recent occasion I was told by the guard that my card did not match the one on the ticket (the last four digits are shown). I told him the card had expired since booking the ticket and that my provider had sent me a new one with a different number (true). He looked a bit furrowed of brow, and I prepared myself for n argument, but he let me through.

I know common sense is irrelevant here, but it does seem to be generally lacking where Virgin's revenue protection is concerned, and I was pleasantly surprised to see it put into play for once.

 

[yorkie]

Carefree - While I've never used an e-ticket on this route, I have boarded Virgin trains at Manchester Piccadilly before, and never experienced a barrier check. I am aware they have checks at Euston fairly frequently, but I wasn't aware it happened at Piccadilly.

And yes Virgin can sometimes lack common sense when it comes to being fair. Hence their (deserved) appearance on Watchdog. They don't like bad PR but I think they are acting in a way that is inviting it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The barrier checks at Piccadilly are not fully effective anyway - I've never seen them checking people who come down the stairs half way down the platform...

Probably on the assumption that anyone coming that way will have been checked when they exited platforms 13 / 14, but plenty of people connect with local tickets that way, or walk round the checks on an unchecked platform, go up the stairs and then down onto whatever platform they need...

 

[Documentarian]

But look, the only name on my e-ticket is mine, the same name on my passport, How could I possibly let anyone else use this ticket? On the contrary, if they only ask for the payment card then anyone who has it can travel, not just the person who's name is on the ticket.
I've talked to a supervisor, or at least it sounded like one and he was even less helpful.

Yorkie, thanks a lot for the help.
Right now I'm thinking about asking someone there if the ticket is valid before I get on the train. If it's not, then I'll simply not travel and forfeit my tickets. And since I'm not willing to pay the amazingly high on the day fare for this route then I might even take a coach if I can't find a cheap train alternative like you suggested. I won't pay any penalty fees or any ridiculous made up fare that's for sure.
It's not time critical but I have to be at London before 3 PM. My current tickets has the train arriving at 10 AM.

Get your parents to phone the bank, tell them that they have lost the card, they will be sent another one, the one that you used to pay for the tickets will be blocked and everybody will be happy!

 

[Mr Spock]

Carefree - And yes Virgin can sometimes lack common sense when it comes to being fair. Hence their (deserved) appearance on Watchdog. They don't like bad PR but I think they are acting in a way that is inviting it.

Not sure why you think that being on watchdog was deserved when there was no proof the guy had a railcard. If I remember correctly he said that he had misplaced it between leaving home and getting on the train so where did it go in that time.

As far as I can see it was just a filler item in the programme and most people I have talked to or comments I have seen describe the whole thing as a non event and thats what it was.

 

[yorkie]

Not sure why you think that being on watchdog was deserved when there was no proof the guy had a railcard. If I remember correctly he said that he had misplaced it between leaving home and getting on the train so where did it go in that time.

As far as I can see it was just a filler item in the programme and most people I have talked to or comments I have seen describe the whole thing as a non event and thats what it was.

He sent proof of having the railcard to Virgin and they refunded one of the tickets. Which is odd; why one and not neither or both? The guard acted correctly and 'within the letter of the law' but the problem is there is no allowance whatsoever for the original ticket (likewise with the Advance ticket on EMT) so someone who had no ticket at all would have been better off; that can't be right.

We've highlighted the unfairness of the railcard situation on this forum. ATOC chose not to act. The result of failing to introduce a fairer system is negative press. They made their choice.

Many proposals for a fairer system have been posted here before. Some are fairer than others, some easier than others, but the current system is about as unfair as it can possibly be, and they have to expect and accept negative press coverage for that. Yes, it was a bit of a non-event. We've heard those stories before. But it's good that they are being given the coverage they deserve. Watchdog were right in what they said. The terms were followed (by the TOCs); the problem is they are unfair.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

We've highlighted the unfairness of the railcard situation on this forum. ATOC chose not to act. The result of failing to introduce a fairer system is negative press. They made their choice.

I highly doubt ATOC base their ticketing decisions on what is said on here.

 

[yorkie]

I highly doubt ATOC base their ticketing decisions on what is said on here.

I highly doubt ATOC base their ticketing decisions on what anyone says - apart from a select few who do not posess much in the way of common sense that is!

Remember, ATOC come out with statements such as "there is no economic justification for [Off Peak tickets] because they are being offered to customers who are using their income on a leisure journey rather than going to the theatre or buying CDs" - David Mapp

They are completely out of touch! They can take the concequences, quite frankly.