The train conductor and my e-ticket...

[Sampras]

Hi, I'll visiting UK next month(I'm from abroad) and I'll be traveling on train there for the first time so I've got some questions.
I've purchased tickets online with Virgin Trains from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston and I got my e-ticket online.
The issue is that only after I've already paid and only after I've read what's written on the e-ticket I realized that the ticket is only valid if the payment card is carried with it. But I paid with one of my parent's credit card(with permission of course) so I'm unable to carry this card with me.
However, my name is on the e-ticket so I can prove my identity with my passport, would it be enough for me to travel?
When does the train conductor confirms the tickets, before or during the trip? And how does he do that, does he have some scanner or does he just have a look at the tickets?
Can I get penalised for not carrying the payment card with me? What is the worst case scenario?
Has anyone here has ever traveled with an e-ticket, do they actually ask to see the payment card?
Thank you

 

[transportphoto]

I have traveled with a print at home ticket (similar rules and regs) and the guard asked to see the payment card.

I guess that without the card the ticket is deemed invalid and a new full price ticket will have to be purchased (unless it is sorted in advance, this is what would happen on the train)

 

[Ferret]

The ticket is only valid with the payment card - you will have ticked a box to say you agree to this condition during the process. So yes, if you board the train without the payment card, your ticket will be invalid and the full SOS fare should be charged.

 

[Invincibles]

Given that there is likely to be a large number of people in a similar position, what is the provision for people using their parents credit card to buy tickets?

It seems very unfortunate that the impression infrequent travellers get of the industry is that it so inflexible as to prohibit such things. Maybe a photocopy of the card and the clear fact that the name on it and the travellers surname are the same could be enough.

I know it is a protection against credit card fraud but it really seems like the sort of thing some common sense ought to be applied on, not the kind of thing we should be using to put people off travelling on the train.

I hope the OP can find a way to get the tickets organised, do they do collection at the station without a credit card?

 

[Sampras]

Thank you for your answers.
I think it's an absurd that in order to buy tickets online you have to have your own credit card. How exactly are teenagers supposed to travel on train? I mean, sure, you can buy tickets in cash in the station but that would cost like 5 times the fare you get online in advance.
So I've got no chance whatsoever to be allowed to travel without the card?
I'd be happy if you tell me how do they check the tickets, do they scan it or is is manually?
Thanks again

 

[TheBigD]

Id suggest you get in touch with http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/contact/

 

[transportphoto]

As you live abroad, I believe that your ticket delivery options are limited, you may not have been offered the postal option (if you were then there may have been a small charge). These would have been delivered on 'standard stock' (click for example if you are not familiar) and you wouldn't have to had your payment card on you.

 

[GB]

Was there no option to use a debit card? I do agree however that it is very inflexable to have to have present the payment card. Alot can happen between when you buy the ticket to when you use it such as theft, damage and loss.

 

[transportphoto]

Was there no option to use a debit card?

The restrictions are the same, credit or debit cards.

I am probably missing something!?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The restrictions are the same, credit or debit cards.

I am probably missing something!?

Nope, over 15's IIRC can have a debit card.

 

[route:oxford]

Thank you for your answers.
I think it's an absurd that in order to buy tickets online you have to have your own credit card.

Not sure which country you are in, but in the UK it's been quite normal for children 11 years and older to hold some form of debit card since around 1997 when the "Solo" scheme was launched.

Most now hold a Visa Debit card instead.

 

[Sampras]

As you live abroad, I believe that your ticket delivery options are limited, you may not have been offered the postal option (if you were then there may have been a small charge). These would have been delivered on 'standard stock' (click for example if you are not familiar) and you wouldn't have to had your payment card on you.

No, post options were only for the UK, I was offered either self-collect from a a machine(which would also require the card) or e-ticket.
Sure, I could've got myself a prepaid debit card, and I will do that the next time, but really isn't the more simple and sensible thing to do is to ask your parents to use their international credit card? I'm not even sure if they would have approved a local debit card for this deal.
So nothing I can do? I simply wasted the money?

 

[Ferret]

So nothing I can do? I simply wasted the money?

Well, try getting in contact with Virgin Trains Customer Services, and explaining the situation. Mention that you'll have your passport as ID, and see if they can authorise you to travel. Tbh, if you get in contact with them before you travel, I expect they'll sort something out for you. Please come back to us and let us know what they say!

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Guys, just watch the abbreviations, as Sampras won't be familiar with them.

I would suggest calling Virgin on 00 44 845 000 8 000.
Explain your circumstances and see what they say.

When you have a result, let us know!

 

[yorkie]

If Customer Services are no use then....

Bear in mind some (most?) guards don't check the card. I have never been asked for a card on about 10 e-ticket journeys however I have not used Manchester-Euston route so I do not know if Virgin guards are told to ask to see the card.

What I'd do is go up to the guard before the train leaves, show the e-ticket, and say "is this ticket okay for this train?" if the guard then says "yes but I'll need the original credit card" I would then go back to the ticket office and buy a new ticket. Or ask on board, and try to be checked before Stoke, if the guard rejects the ticket before Stoke the on-board price is only £8.80 for an Anytime Single, then get off, buy a new ticket, and get the next train (which may be only 20 minutes later).

I would certainly be giving it a go. Not all guards are desperate/unreasonable etc by any means! Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[jon0844]

Some airlines, where you're buying a ticket for someone else (which you CAN do on the railway, after all) allows you to pay with a credit card, but add another card for the ticket user to have to collect/authorise the ticket.

Surely the solution is to have a booking process that allows this, and if the only purpose is to reduce credit card fraud, a fraudster isn't going to use a stolen/cloned card to buy a ticket and then associate it with another card.

It might be worth suggesting this idea to Virgin too (I wonder if they do in fact already do this for their airline business?).

 

[flymo]

Re the airline example.

I've bought airline tickets with Philippine Airlines for my wife, paid for online by my credit card. The T&C's do state that the actual credit card should be produced if the purchaser is part of the travelling party but if not then a photocopy of the front of the credit card and photocopy of the card holder's ID document can be produced instead.

Other times when booking with different airlines I've been directed to the 'verified by Visa' page when paying. If this happens I've never needed to produce any card when checking in.

Anyway back to trains..

It will be interesting to hear the outcome of this, I hope it all ends well.

 

[Sampras]

Well that went very badly. They have an awful awful customer service both online and on telephone. They kept telling me the terms like robots and that the terms are unchangable and they showed no consideration whatsoever.
I tried to make an argument but this guys are a bunch of bureaucratic robots, they wouldn't care.
Look, it's not that big of a deal for me to get a debit card and buy a new ticket but first of all I need to know if the tickets will actually be checked.
Because I'll feel really bad to find out I bought this ticket for nothing.
And besides, isn't there any chance that the train conductor/guard will be understanding?
Thank you.

 

[yorkie]

Welcome to UK Railways. They actually want to put you off, on the basis that many trains are packed, so they do not care if a few people go elsewhere and most people have no choice anyway. The aim is to extract as much money as possible from each customer ('yield management') and they delight in having the most complicated restrictions imaginable.

Your ticket will probably be checked, but I cannot say whether the guard will ask to see the credit card or not. All I can say is read what I said above, that I have never been checked in that respect but I have not used that route so cannot be sure what the guards will do. I would do what I suggested earlier in this topic. Good luck! Do let us know how it went.

Most guards are good, human beings, who do not enforce ludicrously bureaucratic and daft rules. But a small minority delight in doing that. As I do not have access to the rosters and do not know what any of the guards are like on that route and do not know which train you are getting I have absolutely no idea whether your guard will be good or not. Most are absolutely fine, but no guarantees can be given.

How time critical is your journey? I would try to be checked before Stoke-on-Trent as the fare to Stoke is not expensive (about £9). This is around 30 minutes after Manchester. Or your train may go via Crewe, which would largely be the same. From either of these places you can get off the train and buy a ticket for London Midland Trains for approx £12 to London. These trains are slower, but at least you won't give the Virgin guard the satisfaction of charging you a lot of money if you do encounter a bad one. That's what I'd do.

 

[Ferret]

Well, I'm amazed! Apologies Sampras - I genuinely thought they'd allow you to travel if you contacted them in advance!!! The reasoning behind having the payment card present is to prevent people printing out the same ticket several times thus paying once for two or more people to travel. Simple really - I have been known to accept a driving license as ID for that purpose myself!!!! Did you ask to speak to a supervisor, or failing that, a grown up?

 

[yorkie]

Well, I'm amazed! Apologies Sampras - I genuinely thought they'd allow you to travel if you contacted them in advance!!! The reasoning behind having the payment card present is to prevent people printing out the same ticket several times thus paying once for two or more people to travel. Simple really - I have been known to accept a driving license as ID for that purpose myself!!!! Did you ask to speak to a supervisor, or failing that, a grown up?

But shouldn't the guard be ticking the e-ticket numbers off a list?

Asking them to bring the card isn't going to stop people doing that, if they were that desperate, they could 'lose' the card and bring a replacement.

Inconveniencing the customer isn't the solution to the problem of the guards not ticking these tickets off a list.

I am told with Megabus, which uses the same principle, the bus driver has a list and ticks people off.

 

[Ferret]

But shouldn't the guard be ticking the e-ticket numbers off a list?

Which e-ticket list would that be? It may well be on the reservations list we *sometimes* get, BUT, that shows all reservations so includes those on SORs, SVRs, Advances etc. Unless there is a separate 3 character ticket code for e-tickets, then we've no way of checking!

Megatrain on the other hand did work like that - we got a full listing....well, when the printers were working anyway!!!

 

[Sampras]

Well, I'm amazed! Apologies Sampras - I genuinely thought they'd allow you to travel if you contacted them in advance!!! The reasoning behind having the payment card present is to prevent people printing out the same ticket several times thus paying once for two or more people to travel. Simple really - I have been known to accept a driving license as ID for that purpose myself!!!! Did you ask to speak to a supervisor, or failing that, a grown up?

But look, the only name on my e-ticket is mine, the same name on my passport, How could I possibly let anyone else use this ticket? On the contrary, if they only ask for the payment card then anyone who has it can travel, not just the person who's name is on the ticket.
I've talked to a supervisor, or at least it sounded like one and he was even less helpful.

Yorkie, thanks a lot for the help.
Right now I'm thinking about asking someone there if the ticket is valid before I get on the train. If it's not, then I'll simply not travel and forfeit my tickets. And since I'm not willing to pay the amazingly high on the day fare for this route then I might even take a coach if I can't find a cheap train alternative like you suggested. I won't pay any penalty fees or any ridiculous made up fare that's for sure.
It's not time critical but I have to be at London before 3 PM. My current tickets has the train arriving at 10 AM.

 

[Ferret]

But look, the only name on my e-ticket is mine, the same name on my passport, How could I possibly let anyone else use this ticket? On the contrary, if they only ask for the payment card then anyone who has it can travel, not just the person who's name is on the ticket.
I've talked to a supervisor, or at least it sounded like one and he was even less helpful.

I really am amazed! I wonder whether the answeryou got depended on who you spoke to, and you just got unlucky.

 

[Gavelex]

I agree with Yorkie, although I'd also email a few UK papers/news channels if I were stopped, they would love it.

Contacting the press can be a good way to get a human to deal with you, and in the past I have known it to get people a full refund for the original ticket AND the one they had to buy instead.

My incident was on a bus, I got on at about 03.45AM with a travel card (That is valid until 04:00AM the day after it was bought - an 2 RPI's both with a PC Plod in tow got on at about 04.45AM (It was a long journey, and I have NO idea why anyone was working that early!) and tried to fine me - a few emails to the local newspaper got it all sorted including a refund of the travel card.

 

[yorkie]

I doubt the coach will be cheaper than using London Midland! It will probably be slower, too. Yes, LM is slow, but faster than a coach.

Are you only doing the journey one-way or do you require a return? If the latter, do you already have an e-ticket or alternative travel arrangements for the return journey?

 

[londonbridge]

I agree with Yorkie, although I'd also email a few UK papers/news channels if I were stopped, they would love it.

Contacting the press can be a good way to get a human to deal with you, and in the past I have known it to get people a full refund for the original ticket AND the one they had to buy instead.

My incident was on a bus, I got on at about 03.45AM with a travel card (That is valid until 04:00AM the day after it was bought - an 2 RPI's both with a PC Plod in tow got on at about 04.45AM (It was a long journey, and I have NO idea why anyone was working that early!) and tried to fine me - a few emails to the local newspaper got it all sorted including a refund of the travel card.

Then they should get boned up on the rules,a London period bus pass or travelcard is valid for any journey which starts before 4.30AM on the day after the expiry date shown.

 

[bengolding]

Don't bother with Virgin Customer Relations - in my experience, they often give out the incorrect info. I'd send an email directly to the MD outlining your circumstances - chris.gibb@virgintrains.co.uk. If you get no success there, then perhaps try contacting Guardian Money. Virgin TMs tend to strictly enforce the conditions of these e-tickets so I simply wouldn't take it to chance on board.

 

[Sampras]

I doubt the coach will be cheaper than using London Midland! It will probably be slower, too. Yes, LM is slow, but faster than a coach.

Are you only doing the journey one-way or do you require a return? If the latter, do you already have an e-ticket or alternative travel arrangements for the return journey?

I require a return for the following day. I haven't booked it yet. I have now got myself a debit card which I'm not sure it will be accepted by the booking system but assuming it will then any return tickets I buy will be bought with this card.
I will write a letter to the email that was suggested and I'll see how it goes.
The money is not the issue at all, 25 extra pounds wouldn't kill me, but there is a principal here, I've bought a ticket fair and square and I can't use it, why should I buy 2 tickets?
Then again, now I know that I would almost certainly not be allowed to travel with this ticket and would be asked to buy a new, more expensive ticket plus possible penalties. Even If I take the Midlands train after getting off at Stoke it wouldn't cost me less I think.
So I'll send a letter, I'll call them again but if it doesn't go I think common sense is to simply buy a new ticket despite the unfairness.
Thank you for your help and interest.

 

[MCR247]

What unfairness? It would have been in the T&Cs