The suicides must stop.

[support-uk-rail]

I am sorry.

It was not, in shape nor form, my intentions to upset people, especially people in the upsetting situation of Up Carriage Liner.

I have reviewed my previous comments in this subject, and, I withdraw them.

I maintain the opinion that suicide acts on the railway are selfish, but as me123 mentioned, selfishness is part of the mental condition, and cannot be helped and is not the fault of mentally ill people.

When Up Carraige Liner quotes "I am now a signaller", I assume you became one after your mother's death? I think you are very brave, and, it seems like you are honoring your mother.

Anybody, especially Up Carraige Liner, who was upset by my comments, I apologise my utmost, and did not mean to offend, and I hope you can forgive me.

As a 13-year-old kid, I sometimes get messages across the wrong way, sorry guys

 

[Up Carriage Liner]

I am sorry.

It was not, in shape nor form, my intentions to upset people, especially people in the upsetting situation of Up Carriage Liner.

I have reviewed my previous comments in this subject, and, I withdraw them.

I maintain the opinion that suicide acts on the railway are selfish, but as me123 mentioned, selfishness is part of the mental condition, and cannot be helped and is not the fault of mentally ill people.

When Up Carraige Liner quotes "I am now a signaller", I assume you became one after your mother's death? I think you are very brave, and, it seems like you are honoring your mother.

Anybody, especially Up Carraige Liner, who was upset by my comments, I apologise my utmost, and did not mean to offend, and I hope you can forgive me.

As a 13-year-old kid, I sometimes get messages across the wrong way, sorry guys

I thank you for these additional comments.

I do not, and never have done, blamed the railway for my mother's death. She was just very very ill and hadn't the ability to think through the consequences on others of her actions. I did find it very difficult to get on a train a couple of weeks after her death at my local station - also the location of her death.

I don't think I could have considered a job on the railways in the immediate aftermath; but I am now very glad I joined Network Rail a couple of years ago. We have to face up to our demons, and for me this was one way of doing it.

 

[support-uk-rail]

I want to become a conductor at 18, and train to drive trains at 21, unfortunately, the HST's would die out soon after i became qualified

If I hit somebody, I think I may feel it my duty to climb out and confirm it a dead body.

 

[Jord]

Personally i don't think it's worst saying i would do this and i would do that if i hit somebody.

If you become a driver and it did happen you wouldn't know how you would react

 

[Metroland]

Some of them react very well, some of them react badly. I know of one instance at an undisclosed location where the phone calls between a driver and signaller was used as training for the signallers on how to deal with drivers that have an effective break down - the driver in that case reacted extremely badly. Some drivers suffer from extreme shock and need medical attention.

Other drivers are very cool, calm and collected, and I also know of some instances where there have been some especially gruesome incidents where drivers not only have to keep calm but also calm passengers who may be witness to things on waiting platforms.

 

[thefab444]

So basically, we're not allowed to say a single thing bad of the dead?

 

[richa2002]

You're perfectly allowed, just be prepared to be challenged if your view is unreasonable.

 

[djw1981]

Other things which come into play is the level of internal turmoil which comes into play in order to kill yourself. If we look at examples mentioned - standing in front of a train, and one not, jumping off a bridge. Both take immense courage. I mean that in the sense that as a persona of sound mind, it would take immense courage for us to step off a bridge, or stand in front of an approaching train knowing what would happen.

The forms of mental illness or mental turmoil (often due to emotional events) lead to a person losing their insight and perspective. They do not see how their actions will affect others.

One of teh reasons why suicides choose railways is the high level or certainty that the resulting incident will achieve their aim. Overdoses, hangings, wrist cutting etc all result in slower deaths, and can be halted if one Is found after starting on the process. Few people survive a collision between a body and a locomotive / MU. The injuries are often massive resulting in immediate or rapid death, with no chance of being rescued. To the 'dearranged' mind of the suicidal person, that sounds like an ideal solution.

I agree with me123 that we need to look at the care of the mentally ill, but the collective will of the Uk population, politicians and mental health experts over the past 30 years has been to not imprison people who are mentally ill, but to support them in living with their families or in the community. This combined with new human rights & mental health laws which make it harder to detain a person for compulsary treatment 'sectioning' mean that we have to accept that one of the consequences of our desire for more patients to be treated in the community and less in secure / mental institution is an increase in the proportion of mentally ill people in the community who are not complying with treatment; simultaneously, we need to recognise that community care of teh mentally ill costs more than hospital care did, and thus we need to realise that in giving the mentally ill more rights and freedom, we need to spend mor ein supervising their activities and behaviour if we are to try and rduce the numbers of suicides from that group.

Likewise in the general population, we need to look at the stigma of being mentally ill. many of those who are ill and then commit suicide have been ill for a long period but either not sought help, or found that the help available was not the kind they wanted. The UK has come a long way in the past 10 years in dealing with this, with increased counseling opportunities for those who are depressed, anxious, self-abusive or a danger to others. The problem is that in a society where people have free will, it is difficult to ensure that everyone gets the appropriate treatment at the right time since they may not seek it, or may not be willing to accept it for fear of being labeled or stigmatised.

 

[support-uk-rail]

At least this debate is fair and considerate of others.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've just seen a photo which has affected me.

Yet again, I withdraw a comment which I said, "I feel it would be my duty to confirm a dead body".

In such a situation, I think, as anybody would, I would panic deep down inside, but try and stay calm, but I cannot predict my emotions until it happens.

I would like to thank ************ very much for sending me those gory photos, with things like "Guy playing chicken with train and lost", "Mans face after getting hit by train" and "Jumped off the platform"; I would remind you I am just 13!!!! I decided to take a look at the first one, which was slightly gory, but more scary, and I can't bring myself to look at the others. Your sick. When I said "I think I may feel it my duty to confirm a dead body",
I did not also mean, "I can view any explicit or horrible picture without it having affect"

 

[Jord]

Could i see these pics? as i have never witnessed a fatality on the railways but i understand some people on this forum have.

 

[support-uk-rail]

Sorry, no can do.

After viewing the first image; I assumed it was the least gory, and thus to stop further temptation winning my morals, I deleted the email with links.

I know who to contact to get them though. Last time I mentioned his name, however, somebody complained (probably him), and so message me, and I'll tell you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Suicides are a problem on the line; but with lunatics sending me pictures of gory horrible deaths, it spoils what should be fun and interest of railways.

 

[Gizmogle]

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

 

[Beaker]

I think its selfish if some depressed git wants to kill them self and decideds to park their car on the line and take several innocent people out with them....

 

[support-uk-rail]

I suppose your referring to the 2004 incident with an FGW HST? - Now that IS selfish, but we're only really talking about jumpers, and how they affect the drivers.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Juniper Driver, did you have to get out and inspect like someone told me?

Didn't really have to.It was slightly obvious the bloke was brown bread.

Sorry couldn't reply earlier.Just managed to find my password to get back on.

Suicides happen and it's very sad that someone decides to take their lives in this way.

I have been involved in three.

Walthamstow Central November 1985 I think.Up road.I was the guard on the train.
Stoneleigh 2001 I was the driver.
Surbiton (later than 2001 though unknown date 2005?) I had to relieve two Bournemouth drivers on a ten car Wessex after they had someone jump in front of them at Surbiton.

Other things which come into play is the level of internal turmoil which comes into play in order to kill yourself. If we look at examples mentioned - standing in front of a train, and one not, jumping off a bridge. Both take immense courage. I mean that in the sense that as a persona of sound mind, it would take immense courage for us to step off a bridge, or stand in front of an approaching train knowing what would happen.


Think this is right.It would take a lot for me to be able to do it.

My fatality person was extremely depressed I think.(and had been for 20 years)

Another thing when I took on train driving as a job I knew there would be a strong possibility of this happening to me.

 

[Coxster]

Nothing into and out of Euston at the moment...

 

[1D53]

NRES reporting 'Trespass' so your well ahead of them at the moment and some stuff is still going 1335 WVH - EUS has literally just arrived.

 

[TheSlash]

After somebody asked me the other day, i worked out that i have dealt with 3 fatalities, all as a fitter. Not very nice, but not something to lose sleep over.

 

[support-uk-rail]

Juniper Driver, assuming from your pictures you drive for Southwest Trains, do you ever do the Exeter route?

Can you tell me about training for being a guard and a driver, and can you tell me when you became both...

Thanks.

 

[djw1981]

Maybe you could ask by PM as that would be a fairly major tangent to take this thread down.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Juniper Driver, assuming from your pictures you drive for Southwest Trains, do you ever do the Exeter route?

Can you tell me about training for being a guard and a driver, and can you tell me when you became both...

Thanks.

Dont really know much about the training as when I trained it was under British Rail and also at the time I was based at Stratford and then Ilford.

Sorry.

Furthest we go down the Exeter route is as far as Salisbury.

I was a guard for a year in 1985 and passed out as a driver in 1989.

 

[support-uk-rail]

"we" only go as far as Salisbury?

 

[djw1981]

His depot.....

 

[Nym]

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

Can I correct you there, it is chosen, coming here from somone who suffers every day of his life with depression, it's chosen. Anyone can have the power to overcome it, just some pepole can't fight themselves enough.


And in reference to the bravary thing, I'd say it's more cowardace jumping infront of a train rather than facing their problems in their lifes...

Quite conclusivly, been there, done that, got the t-shirt, didn't want the cetalopram, etc. etc. I'm now self managed and have no more problems (most of the time). If you want to stop pepole doing this, you eiter need to force feed them cetalopram, diasapam, tamasapam or lorasapam (or a combination of the above!) or take the time to talk to them and develop some self managment regeimes

 

[me123]

Can I correct you there, it is chosen, coming here from somone who suffers every day of his life with depression, it's chosen. Anyone can have the power to overcome it, just some pepole can't fight themselves enough.

But it can, and frequently sadly does, reach a point where it is very difficult or even impossible to return. Having studied the works of Sylvia Plath (a poet who killed herself on the third attmept having suffered from depression pretty much since she was 10), she frequently refers to the fact that all the therapy she receives was only a temporary fix for her problems. And I'm sure she wanted to overcome them.

Coincidently, when she did kill herself, she tucked her children into bed, went into the kitchen, sealed off the doors (with towels to prevent a leak) and stuck her head in the oven. Please tell me you can see how this is a selfish act to others. Her kids were the first to find her (they were traumatised), and or course there was the possibility of a leak to the kids. When the kids opened the door, they could have inhaled the fumes... She didn't think about this because she merely wanted to kill herself; the selfish nature of suicide rears it's ugly head again.

Shauna's quote is correct. The sufferer feels that they are no longer able to cope with the pain and that they have only one option: and sometimes, if they are all alone, that may sadly be the only option.

 

[Juniper Driver]

His depot.....

No my depot is Waterloo.

When I first came to Waterloo...Waterloo drivers went to Exeter in the Class 33/47/50 days and in the steam days I guess.We lost the work when the 159's came I think,can't remember now.

 

[thefab444]

Salisbury Traincare didn't exist before the 159s did it? (Well the yard probably did, but the actual building etc.)

 

[TheSlash]

Maybe not the current building, but it certainly had loco and carriage facilities?

 

[nutter]

amusing song or something.

It's got be always look on the bright side of life by monty python......

.....I'll get my coat

 

[Juniper Driver]

Nothing beats a 170 on Full power


What about a milk float?